How to fix Hunters in one small change

[Ham on Rye]

If you're going to make it so it can't be used on face, then the cost should be reduced or the damage boosted to help make up for it. If it can't be used as straight face damage, it needs to be stronger removal like a 3/5 for 2 or a 4/6 for 3.

Nerfs don't require compensation.

[Ryme]

Guys guys! There's a card called Antique Healbot, it's run in nearly every control deck and it shits all over Hunter. Can't believe you guys actually think Hunter needs a nerf now lol.

5 mana for an 8 heal and a 3/3 loses you most games when played too early, played too late and it's too late. Healbot is a fine card, but to state it makes rush irrelevant is just wrong.

[Kronik85]

5 mana for an 8 heal and a 3/3 loses you most games when played too early, played too late and it's too late. Healbot is a fine card, but to state it makes rush irrelevant is just wrong.

At which point did I say it was a turn 5 play? The point I'm making is that more or less every Control deck is playing 8-16 points of healing and has a stronger early game vs Hunter. This makes the Hunter game plan harder, they need stronger starts to beat Control than they did before GvG and received very few new tools to do so.

Hunter will still bullshit you out of games, just not as often as it used to. The meta is no longer Hunter centric, I figured people would be happy with this.

[Nanaboostme]

I approve of the change, but as well reducing the mana cost to 2

[Mormolyce]

Cards that are popular in any Control deck of the moment:
Zombie Chow
Owl
MC Tech
Sludge Belcher
Antique Healbot

Classes which are popular atm:
Mage, MANY FLAVOURS! All have pretty good match up's vs Hunter
Warrior, plays WW, Win Axe and has always historically been a strong Hunter counter. Now also effectively plays 4 Shield Blocks.
Paladin, really used to struggle vs Hunter but the modern Mustardin seems to have a great match up.
Warlock, Zoo has never been in a weaker spot in the meta but nothing has changed really in Hunter match up...lack of Soul Fire probably makes it a worse match up than it was before GvG. Handlock now has 2 Healbots but you actually have to be good with Handlock to beat Hunter consistently.
Druid, Ramp is back and it plays more or less every Taunt in the game. Swipe and Zombie Chow both pretty good if you can draw them in the first 4 turns.

So ye, that's Hunter in the GvG meta. That's not to say Hunter isn't still good and getting wins it didn't have any right getting but it's no where near as strong as it was before GvG since it didn't actually gain any new cards whilst all the Control decks got stronger.

I do agree that GvG has diversified the meta and it's not like it was all Hunters before then either. I don't think that means Hunters don't need an adjustment though.

Several popular GvG decks are a little (or a lot) OP as well, but that's a different story.

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5 mana for an 8 heal and a 3/3 loses you most games when played too early, played too late and it's too late. Healbot is a fine card, but to state it makes rush irrelevant is just wrong.

Yeah I tried it out in a few decks, it's solid but unless you're a heal Paladin it doesn't do much more than buy you a round.

[brunnor]

I still think changing the hunter hero power to 1 mana for 1 damage would fix a lot of issues.

[Deleted]

I stop at Kill Command.

With this change, Kill Command remains strong, Hunters remain strong, even face Hunter remains strong. But the extreme amount of face pressure Hunters can put out with almost no counter is reduced significantly.

Taunts and you win.

[Bluesftw]

this need to happen, also undertaker should only gain +1/+0 instead of +1/+1, there , alot of meta issues fixed

[Kelimbror]

I still think changing the hunter hero power to 1 mana for 1 damage would fix a lot of issues.

That would just allow them to use it more often while slamming out even more cheap minions. No thanks.

[muto]

Skill Command isn't the issue it's the 2 mana traps. Change traps to 3 mana.

[Kronik85]

Yeah I tried it out in a few decks, it's solid but unless you're a heal Paladin it doesn't do much more than buy you a round.

Or a Handlock....or a Fatigue Mage where the card is a win condition.

[Mormolyce]

Taunts and you win.

Exactly why I'm suggesting making KC minion-only. The fact it bypasses taunts means you can close from 12HP even through a taunt wall. It's a spell so it doesn't even trigger eg, mage secrets.

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Or a Handlock....or a Fatigue Mage where the card is a win condition.

True, I guess what I mean to say is it's a great card in the right deck, but if it doesn't fit your deck's style it's not a good card.

[Deleted]

Guys guys! There's a card called Antique Healbot, it's run in nearly every control deck and it shits all over Hunter. Can't believe you guys actually think Hunter needs a nerf now lol.

There are plenty of control decks that do not run antique healbot, and it's actually really terrible against hunters, and rush decks in general. So you drop a healbot and gain 8 health, so what? At that point the opponent already has a strong board, and can either a) sack one minion to kill your 3/3, or b) kill it with a cheap spell. Either way they are left with board control and can just deal 8+ damage all over again.

So you basically buy yourself less than 1 more turn to top deck into a board clear, and that is presuming it even matters at that point. Even if you actually manage to board clear, you will be in grossly low hit points, and between their hero power, bow, and kill command, they can easily kill you in 1-2 turns.

[Kronik85]

There are plenty of control decks that do not run antique healbot, and it's actually really terrible against hunters, and rush decks in general. So you drop a healbot and gain 8 health, so what? At that point the opponent already has a strong board, and can either a) sack one minion to kill your 3/3, or b) kill it with a cheap spell. Either way they are left with board control and can just deal 8+ damage all over again.

So you basically buy yourself less than 1 more turn to top deck into a board clear, and that is presuming it even matters at that point. Even if you actually manage to board clear, you will be in grossly low hit points, and between their hero power, bow, and kill command, they can easily kill you in 1-2 turns.

Read other posts, not repeating myself. Who knew that 8 points of heal won't save you when your opponent still has the board!? It's almost like you might need to play other cards....maybe early game cards that can trade with Hunter's early game minions so that they don't have board control from turn 5 and quite frankly don't have the minion quality beyond Highmane to ever get it back.

[Renegader]

ʀᴇxxᴀʀ ᴅɪᴀʀʏ ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 1: ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ ʀᴏʙᴏᴛ ɴᴏᴡ. ᴀᴍ ᴄᴏɴғᴜsᴇ. ᴛʀᴀᴅᴇ ᴏʀ ʜɪᴛ ғᴀᴄᴇ? ɪ ᴘʟᴀʏ ᴛ1 ᴜɴᴅᴇʀᴛᴀᴋᴇʀ ᴄᴏɪɴ ʟᴇᴘᴇʀ ɢɴᴏᴍᴇ? ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 2: ᴍᴀɴʏ ᴛʜɪɴᴋɪɴɢ, ʙʀᴀɪɴ ʜᴜʀᴛ. ᴅᴇᴄɪᴅᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴇᴇᴘ ᴜsɪɴɢ ᴏʟᴅ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ. ᴅᴇᴄɪᴅᴇ ᴋᴇᴇᴘ ᴜsᴇ ᴏʟᴅ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ ᴀɴᴅ ʜɪᴛ ғᴀᴄᴇ. ᴀᴍ ᴛʜɪɴᴋ ᴍᴀʏʙᴇ ᴀᴅᴅ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜʀᴀᴛᴛʟᴇ ʀᴏʙᴏᴛ. ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 3: ᴍᴇ sᴛɪʟʟ ᴡɪɴɴɪɴɢ.

[Kelimbror]

Lolz. Ty for the early morning laugh.

[Taalyn]

Skill Command isn't the issue it's the 2 mana traps. Change traps to 3 mana.

What are the hunters you face playing after dropping a trap that are OP for 1 less mana? Most traps are played via Mad Scientist now anyway.

[Kelimbror]

What are the hunters you face playing after dropping a trap that are OP for 1 less mana? Most traps are played via Mad Scientist now anyway.

The problem is that hunter traps put you in worse positions almost always than others. Other than crazy stall mages, I'd gladly test for duplicate, armor, or C/S over any hunter trap that is actively used -> freezing, explosive, snakes. Hunter traps put you at a serious disadvantage even when you know exactly what they are. If you deal with it directly, you likely sacrifice entire turns and/or minions allowing them to keep momentum too high.

A scientist played at the right time on it's own can effectively negate your whole board. Maybe you ignore it and go face, at which point they ram it to you, load up a flame trap, then laugh when all your minions die 'for free' or it's frost and you directly lose momentum that way.

The problem is really how the meta is a measure of extremes. You either play insanely fast or insanely slow. Mid range seems to be lost in a sea where they lose to both extremes and insanely fast usually wins out without perfect draw. While we don't want to play 30 min matches every game, I think most people are becoming dissatisfied with the style of play that is prevalent. There's really nothing fun playing or playing against a slap it down and go face cancer deck. Beyond the immature giggles you get the first time you start rolling people, it really is boring.

[Mormolyce]

ʀᴇxxᴀʀ ᴅɪᴀʀʏ ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 1: ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ ʀᴏʙᴏᴛ ɴᴏᴡ. ᴀᴍ ᴄᴏɴғᴜsᴇ. ᴛʀᴀᴅᴇ ᴏʀ ʜɪᴛ ғᴀᴄᴇ? ɪ ᴘʟᴀʏ ᴛ1 ᴜɴᴅᴇʀᴛᴀᴋᴇʀ ᴄᴏɪɴ ʟᴇᴘᴇʀ ɢɴᴏᴍᴇ? ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 2: ᴍᴀɴʏ ᴛʜɪɴᴋɪɴɢ, ʙʀᴀɪɴ ʜᴜʀᴛ. ᴅᴇᴄɪᴅᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴇᴇᴘ ᴜsɪɴɢ ᴏʟᴅ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ. ᴅᴇᴄɪᴅᴇ ᴋᴇᴇᴘ ᴜsᴇ ᴏʟᴅ ᴅᴇᴄᴋ ᴀɴᴅ ʜɪᴛ ғᴀᴄᴇ. ᴀᴍ ᴛʜɪɴᴋ ᴍᴀʏʙᴇ ᴀᴅᴅ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜʀᴀᴛᴛʟᴇ ʀᴏʙᴏᴛ. ɢᴠɢ ᴅᴀʏ 3: ᴍᴇ sᴛɪʟʟ ᴡɪɴɴɪɴɢ.

Gul'dan diary, GVG day 33: TAP TAP POKE POKE TAP TAP POKE POKE WHATS A GVG?