Healers afraid to cast direct heals?

[dawawe]

Log of the death for everyone asking, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...deaths&death=1
And healing received during that period https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=15715061

i'm an healer (resto druid) and i killed mythic mar'gok few days ago
I'm also in charge of handling p2 debuff, so i know how frustrating can be for an healer to top off arcanewraths while moving and healing high priority targets.
While looking at your gif isn't "that" informative, i can see ofc an issue healing branded but hey, at the same time you could have saved yourself easily: if you have 3rd stack and you aren't healed between 3rd and 4th, just fuckin move and lose a global w/o risking to die.
Ok it sounds stupid for most ppl, but the key of the fight (for me and my guild btw) was to not to die in early fight and save resses for key phases (high dmg in interphase 2 e p3 for example).

in the end, i agree with ppl saying healing has changed blah blah...it's Dps, tanks and healer job to get used to change

good luck with the progression!
cheers

p.s. sorry for the bad english ofc i'm not mothertongue and too lazy and tired to check it

Yes moving would have saved me. But is it reasonable to expect a heal, just 1, over the period of 20 seconds half of which was spent at and under 50% when the other person who got the 3 stack got topped right after and the 2 ppl who got the 4 stacks were topped as well.

[Floopa]

Log of the death for everyone asking, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...deaths&death=1
And healing received during that period https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=15715061





Yes moving would have saved me. But is it reasonable to expect a heal, just 1, over the period of 20 seconds half of which was spent at and under 50% when the other person who got the 3 stack got topped right after and the 2 ppl who got the 4 stacks were topped as well.

tbh it depends

healing arcane wrath people is #1 prio but at the same time healers may be forced to move due to force nova coming, mines spawning, orbs coming (especially in p1/p3). it's best to not use a personal until that 5th stack. you mentioned you got a 6th stack hence the HS usage being unavailable, in which case you getting that 6th stack is your fault and it just has a knock-on effect.

[burlap]

You had just gotten the branded debuff, priest put a shield on you right before it ticked, it jumped to someone else and then back to you. You still had Weakened Soul on you by that time and couldn't get another shield.

[Chrispotter]

Cds on CD as said in 1st post. HS and dark regen were both used. My CDs are scripted and used at the same point in every fight. HS was used as an OHSHIT just before this when i ended up with a 6 stack.

Dont use all your cd's " scripted ".
Yes your healers may not have played optimally, but I would stab a guess that probably 19/20 or even 20/20 of your raid group is not playing 100% optimally.
If you want to play with better players then move to a better guild, otherwise accept your healers are not the best players in the world and then YOU play better to try and carry them with sick plays and using your defensive abilities in a more wise fashion

[dawawe]

tbh it depends

healing arcane wrath people is #1 prio but at the same time healers may be forced to move due to force nova coming, mines spawning, orbs coming (especially in p1/p3). it's best to not use a personal until that 5th stack. you mentioned you got a 6th stack hence the HS usage being unavailable, in which case you getting that 6th stack is your fault and it just has a knock-on effect.

We get 6 stacks when ppl run behind us with the debuff instead of to the sides like theyre supposed to and we get knocked back into them. 2 people got 6 stacks.

Dont use all your cd's " scripted ".
Yes your healers may not have played optimally, but I would stab a guess that probably 19/20 or even 20/20 of your raid group is not playing 100% optimally.
If you want to play with better players then move to a better guild, otherwise accept your healers are not the best players in the world and then YOU play better to try and carry them with sick plays and using your defensive abilities in a more wise fashion

What is more wise using CDs to mitigate unavoidable damage that happens all the time like the other 19 ppl in the raid or not using them waiting for damage that shouldnt kill anyone instead of getting a heal for 20 seconds? The pally healer who bitched is the on with several world firsts from back in wrath as well. Sadly its #1 guild on my dying server group and i would quit before paying for a transfer.

[Floopa]

We get 6 stacks when ppl run behind us with the debuff instead of to the sides like theyre supposed to and we get knocked back into them. 2 people got 6 stacks.

it doesn't matter, you shouldn't get it to 6 stacks.

[Dyegov]

That is definitely something particular to your case and group. I can not imagine myself only hitting Holy Shock and doing nothing for the whole CD. That's absurd at the best. I am always and mostly casting Holy Light all the time, on everyone who needs it, and Flash Light on emergency situations, with Holy Shock in between, not the other way around.

[Tziva]

The class designers put every effort into making it the opposite this expansion, so I can't really fathom why your healers are avoiding doing so. I am not sure this is an actual issue rather than simply a question that should be directed at your healers.

Not only are group heals no longer smart, but for many (most?) healers, they are either really mana inefficient or have a cooldown, meaning that a huge chunk of any healer's healing is going to be via direct heals or absorbs.

That said, keep in mind that with the mana changes, healers can't just pump out massive HPS constantly and sustain the fight. We need to be somewhat conservative early on so we can last until the end of the fight.

[Adramelch]

What is more wise using CDs to mitigate unavoidable damage that happens all the time like the other 19 ppl in the raid or not using them waiting for damage that shouldnt kill anyone instead of getting a heal for 20 seconds? The pally healer who bitched is the on with several world firsts from back in wrath as well. Sadly its #1 guild on my dying server group and i would quit before paying for a transfer.

What is more wise: using CDs for predictable and affordable damage that healers know is coming or keeping them for an 'oh-shit' moment like the one you described?

See? Two can play the game.

[Tziva]

Yes moving would have saved me. But is it reasonable to expect a heal, just 1, over the period of 20 seconds half of which was spent at and under 50% when the other person who got the 3 stack got topped right after and the 2 ppl who got the 4 stacks were topped as well.

Maybe a lot of people were injured and you were lower priority. Maybe mana was tight and letting people hang at lower health was necessary. Maybe it was simply an accident where someone fatfingered the wrong key or everyone thought a different healer was covering you.

Or maybe you're that player who consistently makes the decisions like "moving could save me, but I think it's reasonable to expect a heal" throughout a fight and ultimately ends up being a drain on healer mana. In my experience, raids often have that one guy who does this; while he might not always die, he needs babysat more than the other DPS who are proactive about their own survivability. Then when we've wised up and we're in a situation where everyone is hurt and probably someone is going to die, that's the person the healers let go. In an ideal world, it wouldn't happen (although in an ideal world, you'd move), but in reality it does. I am not saying you are "that guy" but that is probably a question you should ask yourself and make adjustments if so.

So, yeah. Is it reasonable to expect a heal? Absolutely. Should you count on that heal and make poor decisions as a result? No.

[Nzete]

Personally, as a healer, I have three categories for people's personal cooldown use: the never (bad), the on cooldown no matter what (only marginally better), and the people who assess incoming damage and likely incoming damage to determine that the mitigation is best used then. If your personal cooldown is a heal, then anytime that it won't be an overheal is saving healer mana but it is best used when you need healing immediately and there are many targets needing immediate healing. If your personal cooldown is mitigation, you use it for the biggest hit(s) possible to get the most out of it.

[Dra]

as a healer currently progressing this boss, it seems that there should have been a big healing raid cd to heal the aberration, therefor leaving time for single target heals for ppl that have the branded, 100% your healers fault.
but you could have saved yourself

gl

[Djriff]

You had just gotten the branded debuff, priest put a shield on you right before it ticked, it jumped to someone else and then back to you. You still had Weakened Soul on you by that time and couldn't get another shield.

This doesn't matter. The disc priest (hopefully) is the only one that has an actual excuse. Even then they still had Penance and Flash Heal at their disposal. Your death was a combination of improperly handling the mechanics and a breakdown in healing coordination.

[Airlick]

Seems to be common in my group now. We have been having attendance issues recently and we have had people switch toons or bring in new apps. A mage had to switch to DK to tank doing great. A warrior switched to pally to heal and a new app healer. Last night there were numerous times where people died on mythic Mar'gok never receiving a direct heal. Personally, i died not having received a heal other than renewing mists for over 20 seconds and one of the healers(paladin) bitching people need to stop dying. Now i linked him logs, video and a gif i made of my death. He pointed out on the log my last defensive use (sac pact) was 40 seconds before my death. I pointed out that its a 1m CD and he said i should have saved it. Now i pop sac pact every other wave and MF the others every-time consistently. Now my death, I died from somebody fucking up arcane wrath and me getting a 6 stack. I got the debuff at 50% hp I get an icon on raid frames i announce in a chat bubble i have it how man stacks and a count down for 5 seconds, receive no heals at all during this time. Yet, its my fault for not calling for a heal or CD. One flash heal, 1 regrowth, 1 healing surge, 1 FoL, 1 Holy Shock, or 1 PW:S would have been enough to keep me alive as i took roughly 28k overkill. Has it come to a point where healers just spam their instants and blanket the whole raid and do nothing else? Im debating switching from my lock to heal on my priest because it makes me sad as i can count all the healers cast time heals on both hands every attempt.

This healer sounds terribad. Healers DO cast a lot, there is no way to avoid it, they must be losing half of their HPS if they are trying not to cast.

[dawawe]

Newest update on talking with the healers. The pally says he sees himself as an equalizer. He lets the other healers heal the tanks. Pallies arent good for big spike damage if somebody dropped to 10% he wont be able to heal them as fast as other healers. His main focus is making sure everyone has around the same HP.

[Lellybaby]

Newest update on talking with the healers. The pally says he sees himself as an equalizer. He lets the other healers heal the tanks. Pallies arent good for big spike damage if somebody dropped to 10% he wont be able to heal them as fast as other healers. His main focus is making sure everyone has around the same HP.

If he's not healing the tanks through bacon (beacon) then he's doing it wrong.

The only healer that has a really hard time of getting people healed up is Disc priests. That's why Disc priests are there for the Oh Shit PWS at 10% while the other healers top that person back up.

If the pallies is on the tanks the healers never usually have to worry about them except during certain abilities.

[Deleted]

Now i pop sac pact every other wave and MF the others every-time consistently.

I might have misunderstood this but by wave do you mean force nova? As a warlock you can surely use demonic circle to completely avoid the damage, thus saving your cooldowns for something like this. On topic though, from watching the gif I'd be inclined to say your healers need to wake up a little, but then again playing the blame game never helps and you should probably talk to your raid leader (or healing leader if there is one) about it rather than posting about it on mmo .

[Deleted]

W The pally healer who bitched is the on with several world firsts from back in wrath as well.

This is besides the point and a little off topic but surely a healer with world first experience can't have forgotten how to play his class so considering what people have pointed out are you sure he is not just some guy who bought the account, there is nothing worse then some idiot using someone else's hard earned work to gain immunity from questions as to their performance, it also sucks and is counter productive if they go around giving bad information such as pallys can't tank heal which is absurd.

[Deleted]

Maybe a lot of people were injured and you were lower priority.

Under the circumstances, it sounds like he would be high priority given that he's going to take predictable and unavoidable damage.

Or maybe you're that player who consistently makes the decisions like "moving could save me, but I think it's reasonable to expect a heal" throughout a fight and ultimately ends up being a drain on healer mana. In my experience, raids often have that one guy who does this; while he might not always die, he needs babysat more than the other DPS who are proactive about their own survivability. Then when we've wised up and we're in a situation where everyone is hurt and probably someone is going to die, that's the person the healers let go.

I haven't been a healer for a fair old time so my opinions are mostly invalid, though when I did heal it was back in the time of directed heals and zero smart heals. You are certainly correct that there were damage magnets in every raid, but far from sacrificing them I actually would take better care of them. Some fights just need everyone alive until at least the end and focusing more on someone who may be able to look after themselves at the expense of someone who is likely to die is asking for a wipe. Yes, we can still berate anyone who takes excessive avoidable damage and maybe one day the message will sink in, but it is the healers job to do whatever they can to keep the whole raid up. That way, at least you've done your part as well as can be expected.

[Deleted]

Interesting how there is 4pages long discussion about one dead in one attempt... If its not something that happens commonly stop over worrying about it so much.. Its still progression, you are still learning the fight... maybe healers fell asleep a bit, maybe they panicked about tank dmg that was going on... It happens... As long as it doesnt repeat all the time I dont see a problem about it.