Arms nerf, Jan. 21 hotfix

[shatteredoathED]

It's not as tied as it once was.
BT has flat bonus crit chance instead of doubling crit, and Haste lowers its cooldown. Haste also helps proc Sudden Death more often and gives you more Rage.
Not sure where your concern comes from. It's a playstyle.
If anything I'm sad Fury's "store -> unleash gameplay with Colossus Smash" was replaced with a more whack-a-mole one.

As for the thread subject, it's not a nerf if it was overbuffed.
You still got a buff compared to before - just smaller.

Gladiator stance feels almost exactly like fury in that regard, dumping rage into SC windows. At 670ish my single target fury and gstance sim out very close, it's still viable at that gear level, and it's pretty fun to play.

[nowish]

Has everyone forgot about the arms glyph that increases healing taken after a MS by 10%? Why is this even a discussion?

[Warriorsarri]

I'll even pose you this thought.... a fight with 4 targets i bet Fury performs better than arms because of meat clever.

Before the initial changes to Arms mastery Fury was stronger on 3 and 5 target fights due to how meat cleaver stacks work. Now after the changes I've yet to see any tests done, but I'd assume they are close to equal now the two specs.

[Cute Chen]

-In 5 man dungeons, Arms Warriors again are the weakest link in the chain as they require 3X amount of healing as other classes and therefore die much more frequently and receive less healing in general, as with the amount of mana spent to keep an Arms Warrior alive the healer can heal all other members and himself.

Bloodthirst only had healing added because tanks used to have a harder time holding threat and Whirlwind was an aggro monkey, now it's just kept for flavor and doesn't really heal for anything worth mentioning.

[Warriorsarri]

Also, as nowish said, given an equal amount of damage being dealt to three different warriors, one of each dps spec, the Glad warrior would require the least amount of healing, closely followed by the Arms one. Fury is quite a bit behind as it lacks both good personal cds and has no passive increase to healing received.

[Miko]

I have been playing Arms since 3 January, 2006. You have still failed to repel even a single one of my arguments.

I have been playing tennis for 10 years, I'm still not very good.

- - - Updated - - -

Arms has no reason to exist. Once upon the time, Arms was a good PvP spec and Fury was the raiding spec of choice.

-In PvP Arms is a huge liability as it has got no self-healing. A pocket healer is a must else an Arms Warrior is simply the class that dies first and oftentimes without even knowing what hit you.

-In Raids Arms Warriors are healing whores because they have got no self healing. An Arms Warrior requires perhaps 4 times as much healing to stay alive as a Rogue and two to three times the healing a Fury Warrior requires.

-In 5 man dungeons, Arms Warriors again are the weakest link in the chain as they require 3X amount of healing as other classes and therefore die much more frequently and receive less healing in general, as with the amount of mana spent to keep an Arms Warrior alive the healer can heal all other members and himself.

-In levelling, Arms does less damage than Fury and it is a worse spec to play because of lack of self healing.

-If you are trapping elites at nagrand, you can't solo Nagrand Elites as Arms whereas you can as Fury, due to self-healing and Fury's more DPS.

-------------------------->Arms does not have a reason to exist. Everything it does Fury or Prot does better.

Fury's self healing is shit. In raids doing the mechanics are all that matters, not how much you can self heal. Arms also leads on cleave fights vs the other warrior dps specs.

In raids healing whores and healing liabilities are players who stand in fire.
In 5mans healing whores and healing liabilities are players that stand in fire.
In lvling Prot is better bc of instant tank ques.
I have never had problems trapping in nagrand.
In pvp if you die with-out knowing what hit you as any class you are probably bad and wouldn't matter what you played.

[Antimals]

am I think only one capable of figuring ouut 57-18 is 49?

[Deleted]

Wish they would stop fucking pissing about, had to change spec and gear several times already in the space of a month.

[Firebert]

-In PvP Arms is a huge liability as it has got no self-healing. A pocket healer is a must else an Arms Warrior is simply the class that dies first and oftentimes without even knowing what hit you.

-In Raids Arms Warriors are healing whores because they have got no self healing. An Arms Warrior requires perhaps 4 times as much healing to stay alive as a Rogue and two to three times the healing a Fury Warrior requires.

-In 5 man dungeons, Arms Warriors again are the weakest link in the chain as they require 3X amount of healing as other classes and therefore die much more frequently and receive less healing in general, as with the amount of mana spent to keep an Arms Warrior alive the healer can heal all other members and himself.

-In levelling, Arms does less damage than Fury and it is a worse spec to play because of lack of self healing.

-If you are trapping elites at nagrand, you can't solo Nagrand Elites as Arms whereas you can as Fury, due to self-healing and Fury's more DPS.

-------------------------->Arms does not have a reason to exist. Everything it does Fury or Prot does better.

Fury also can gather more Versatility to further increase their self-healing, as they get 2x2H over Arms' 1x2H.

If he desperately need to heal, he can just glyph the ms causing you to recieve 10% extra heal or whatever it was

If you're soloing, it's useless; if Sturmbridge is correct, the glyph will only reduce the numbers required for healing to 3.6x as much heals required as a Rogue, roughly 2.25x as much as a Fury Warrior and 2.72x in five-mans.

resort to bad insult because bad player / terrible conversationist kk

Standard practice on this sub-forum; I suggest using the ignore feature.

[Lucetia]

Wish they would stop fucking pissing about, had to change spec and gear several times already in the space of a month.

That's your choice to make sure you squeeze out every little tiny 0.01% dps. Then making changes like this isn't suppose to make you go out and change gear every time a hotfix comes out. Even then I don't see how you could be changing gear that much. Since raid gear has static stats (aside from tertiary).

[Anbokr]

That's your choice to make sure you squeeze out every little tiny 0.01% dps. Then making changes like this isn't suppose to make you go out and change gear every time a hotfix comes out. Even then I don't see how you could be changing gear that much. Since raid gear has static stats (aside from tertiary).

I think this is less of an issue in PvE considering your gear is limited to 1 or at most 2 options for each piece because Highmaul. It's big in PvP though when you're deciding arms vs fury, which weapons to buy, and which stats to prioritize. They need to be a little more careful with hotfixes going forward, I'd rather not see 10-20% swings every few weeks, but hey, it's the beginning of the xpac, guess they need some time to get things right.

[Bigbazz]

That's your choice to make sure you squeeze out every little tiny 0.01% dps. Then making changes like this isn't suppose to make you go out and change gear every time a hotfix comes out. Even then I don't see how you could be changing gear that much. Since raid gear has static stats (aside from tertiary).

It's quite a bit more than 0.01% dps though isnt it. It's more like "Oh so you're doing 32k dps on butcher, well Arms is now doing over 40k".. Now by my count that is a lot closer to 30%. But hey that's your own fault if you're switching specs to squeeze out every 30%, maybe a slight exaggeration... but genuinely only slight.

The same with Fury, the dps went through the roof with that spec when they buffed it. Same thing with Gladiator, it was a top competitive spec and then was nerfed fairly hard leaving it as overall a very luke warm spec performance wise, meanwhile at that same time Fury was all the rage from big buffs. Then you had this recent Arms buff that blew it through the roof on damage, making it arguably the best for every fight in Highmaul, and in some cases demolishing other specs.

They also changed Gladiator again, buffing it in some situations and nerfing it in others, and then they 50% revert on their Arms buffs. This ping pong changes annoy people because if it was only 0.01% or 1%/2%/3% then it would not really make any real difference, the attempt to attempt RNG differences would iron that out by itself.


This is WOD for me

1. Want to go Fury, but can't because its absolutely shit, Arms is horrible to play and horrible single target.
2. Forced to play Gladiator to be competitive, really enjoy it anyway...
3. Nerf Gladiator.... sadface..
4. Buff Fury - Try it, lose dps because I lack the gear.. But Fury is well balanced (have a star sticker, Blizzard!)
5. Back to Gladiator, trying to get Fury gear
6. Arms strongest on all multi-target fights... pickup an Arms spec.
7. Gladiator changes... Confusion, lost dps on Twins Mythic, simulations don't line up with it. Gained dps elsewhere
8. Arms buffs... Top spec on every fight, even butcher due to Execute phase burst.
9. Working towards dropping Gladiator even though I like it.
10. Arms nerfs, in conjunction with Gladiator buffs announced on PTR


It's like... damn jesus fucking christ can they not just settle on a balance and let us play the game without pushing us back n forth to different specs with all this buff/nerf/buff/nerf/buff/nerf shit, it was stupid of them to nerf Gladiator at the very start just because it was strong in Ilvl630 blues, and now in an effort to try to fix prot they have gone completely overboard with Prot tanking damage and on the 6.1 PTR they are buffing it even further?

Are they even on the same planet?

[cFortyfive]

It's like... damn jesus fucking christ can they not just settle on a balance and let us play the game without pushing us back n forth to different specs with all this buff/nerf/buff/nerf/buff/nerf shit, it was stupid of them to nerf Gladiator at the very start just because it was strong in Ilvl630 blues, and now in an effort to try to fix prot they have gone completely overboard with Prot tanking damage and on the 6.1 PTR they are buffing it even further?

Are they even on the same planet?

you'd have preferred for fury to stay dogshit till whatever the next tier raid after brf is ?

[Deleted]

Nerfs were needed and I'm glad that they didn't nerf it to the ground.

[Antimals]

you'd have preferred for fury to stay dogshit till whatever the next tier raid after brf is ?

How are you implying that arms being good means fury is bad? I don't get how all of you idiots can bitch because one spec of your own class is better than that which you prefer to play. Arms performing well or bad has nothing to do with how well fury is performing. Holy shit

[Mihalik]

Was expected. Still, I would rather play arms. If it will be at least middle of the pack ST before execute phase - I'm golden.

I still don't understand why would anyone willingly play Arms.

[Bigbazz]

you'd have preferred for fury to stay dogshit till whatever the next tier raid after brf is ?

Yes that's exactly what I said in my post, you did a great job of reading it.

[Lucetia]

It's quite a bit more than 0.01% dps though isnt it. It's more like "Oh so you're doing 32k dps on butcher, well Arms is now doing over 40k".. Now by my count that is a lot closer to 30%. But hey that's your own fault if you're switching specs to squeeze out every 30%, maybe a slight exaggeration... but genuinely only slight.

That's why I said gear and not spec :P

[Antimals]

I still don't understand why would anyone willingly play Arms.

why do some dudes like dicks in their butts? it's personal preference. shouldn't matter to you

[cFortyfive]

How are you implying that arms being good means fury is bad? I don't get how all of you idiots can bitch because one spec of your own class is better than that which you prefer to play. Arms performing well or bad has nothing to do with how well fury is performing. Holy shit

I think you should stop chewing on those shrooms.

Yes that's exactly what I said in my post, you did a great job of reading it.

The tldr seemed to me that all the nerfs/buffs are too large and annoying. Without the pretty decent fury buff it'd would have stayed on dogshit level and I definitely preferred fury being up there instead of glad.