5-Man Mentality - DPS Pulling

[Awbee]

I'm the ruler of the 5man I'm in... My motto for the game is "efficiency = fun". If I'm not doing something as efficiency as possible I'm just wasting my time, like how a tank pulling slowly wastes the time of the 4 other people in the group.
I don't need to run 5 man content but unfortunatly Blizzard has "forced" me into it via Inn daily quests plus whatever else they put in there next. I'm there to get my shit and get out as quickly as possible.

You still haven't explained why you think your priorities should have more weight than those of other members in the group.

A tank pulling slowly might waste the other people's time, your "oogogo" pressuring and pulling might ruin other people's enjoyment of the dungeon. At best, you're as bad as they are. Usually worse, because a slow tank usually isn't doing it on purpose to annoy others, but because he's just not comfortable at a faster pace, doesn't know the dungeon well, is explaining the fights to a newbie friend in his group, etc.

[Deleted]

Have fun with your aggro and the dying that follows

I'm too geared to die in a 5 man Hc's, but thanks for thinking about my heartless warrior.

I tanked as fury couple of hc's with a good healer, tank was picking his nose with both hands.

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Yeah. Even to the point that when I'm pulling like 10 mobs at once, the DPS, instead of AoEing them down, go ahead and pull more packs, which actually slows the dungeon down compared to if they just went all out with AoE. Another issue is when I'm pulling 2 rooms at once, for example, DPS will attack too early and seperate the group instead of AoEing and CCing everything down at once after it's gathered properly, again slowing down the run. It's like the DPS don't realize what actually makes the run faster and in their impatience to clear fast, they actually slow it down instead.

That is actually really annoying. A better discussion would have come out speaking about this issues than the tank being slow and now pulling fast enough.

[Dandruid]

I'll always pull as dps if I'm waiting ages and getting bored, but for myself I know what I can take and what I can't :P Rule of thumb is, if I cant kite it, I don't really need the tank. If they are clearly a new player tho, or if the healer just can't handle the tank dmg then I'll slow down for the most part. Far too many tanks that over gear the content of 5mans, but wont pull a pack without ccing all but one mob, just go damnit! You are more than capable! Have some confidence in your tanking to take risks.

[RuneeBH]

If the dps are able to pull and not die, then you should be moving faster, or don't tank. Its pretty straight forward.

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Honestly, the only problem I have with it is on my warrior 'cause I don't always have Thunder Clap up and its annoying 6s CD takes forever sometimes. But on something like a monk, I invite people to pull fast. They usually can't move faster anyway, and if they are they prob aren't doing as much dmg as they should (except hunters)

[Deleted]

Treat these guys like a Pavlovian experiment. The only way to correct stupid behavior is to punish it, because asking sure doesn't do a thing. You have 2 choices. Either leave the group or let people die and see if they get the hint. As a tank I do this all the time. If you think they can handle the pull, then go for it, knock yourselves out while I stand back and watch you scramble around like an idiot bleating for me to taunt until you either die or the healer leaves. Here's the thing. It doesn't effect me one bit. In fact, it's entertaining. If I get tired of it though, I just leave. No recriminations, no drama, just leave group. And to all you DPS who say it's because I'm not pulling fast enough, that's such bull shit. I pull like a monster, but you dumb-ass guys with sprint or blink or whatever just can't control yourselves. The real truth is you see a good tank and you think that's an invitation to go nuts on the mobs. It isn't. If all this makes me a douche tank - you're god-damn right.

[Shamburger]

Oh please get over yourself, you're "forced" to run it because of the inn daily quests? Really? That's got to be the worst excuse I've ever heard from anyone, ever, when they claimed they were "forced" to do something!

The inn quests doesn't give you anything you really need, they are about as far from mandatory as you can possibly get, and if you absolutely have to run them, either run them as a tank, or sign up with a friend who can tank for you, don't bring in your idea of what fun is and force it on everyone else, especially if you're going to ruin the run for the rest of the group by not allowing the tank to do his job!

Why do you think"forced" was in quotations genius Clearly I am not forced to do anything. I choose to do the daily for mats or whatever other reason I have. That doesn't have anything to do with a tank pulling slow.

You and I just appear to have a different idea on what the tanks job is. I'm guessing yours is "It's the tanks job to pull"
For me as I've said countless times in this thread, the tanks job is to safely pull mobs in order to clear the instance in the most efficient way possible. When I tank (which i've had to start doing now because of the level of unqualified tanks in LFG) it's a couple pulls from start to finish and I do it in my 630 cmode set for the "lols"

You still haven't explained why you think your priorities should have more weight than those of other members in the group.

A tank pulling slowly might waste the other people's time, your "oogogo" pressuring and pulling might ruin other people's enjoyment of the dungeon. At best, you're as bad as they are. Usually worse, because a slow tank usually isn't doing it on purpose to annoy others but because he's just not comfortable at a faster pace, doesn't know the dungeon well, is explaining the fights to a newbie friend in his group, etc.

They have more weight to me because they are mine. I'm not in the group to make sure that the 4 other people have the best heroic experience of their lives or so the tank can hold hands with this buddy and explain mechanics (there is a dungeon journal for that). Like I said earlier, I want to get my shit and get out in the most efficient manner possible. If that sounds dickish to you that's all well and good. But I'm in the game to have fun, not cater to other peoples idea of it.

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If the dps are able to pull and not die, then you should be moving faster, or don't tank. Its pretty straight forward.

This is one of the best posts in this thread. If I can pull and not die, It would only make sense that a "tank" with mitigation could be pulling faster instead of me no?

[roahn the warlock]

Part of a tank's skill is the ability to pull speedily. It isn't just taking dmg. If you are slow, that's the same as Dps not doing their rotation.

If you're slow, dps will pull. Go as fast as your healer can handle, I always say.

[Varabently]

Probably the fact that DPS players could solo "heroic" dungeons in MOP has something to do with it. I don't think there was a paradigm shift in players, but maybe in Blizzard's opinion on the difficulty of the 5 man content. Not sure you could ever solo WOD heroics like this though, since the damage done is much higher.

For someone in plate especially. I had no reason to wait for the tank on my paladin in 5 mans. In fact I would often queue as a tank and stay in ret spec/gear because it didn't matter whatsoever.

[Awbee]

If that sounds dickish to you that's all well and good. But I'm in the game to have fun, not cater to other peoples idea of it.

The same is true for other people as well. That's why some tanks leave group when DPS keep pulling, or why some healers don't heal pulling DPS, etc.
If pulling DPS spoil their enjoyment of the dungeon, why should they just sit and take it?

[Shamburger]

The same is true for other people as well. That's why some tanks leave group when DPS keep pulling, or why some healers don't heal pulling DPS, etc.
If pulling DPS spoil their enjoyment of the dungeon, why should they just sit and take it?

They shouldn't, they should leave the group. That's what I'm saying though.

The onus is on the player regardless of roll. If I was tanking and a DPS started pulling (and surviving for arguments sake) for me there are two options right? Either I start tanking better, or I should leave the group because clearly I'm not at the right skill level to tank for the group I'm in.

Tanks shouldn't get mad at me for pulling (especially when I tell them they can go faster), they should see it as a hint to improve.

[Shieldi]

i don't mind if dps pulls as long as it doesn't inconvenience the group. if you pull something extra or get too far ahead of me, i'm a firm believer in you pull it you tank it.

if something i was already about to grab gets pulled though, it doesn't bother me in the least.

[seam]

When I'm tanking, I pull at a specific pace. Very very rarely do I go slow, but I don't grab 2-3 packs at once and expect them to be AoE'd down unless I know I can trust my healer.

I'll keep us in combat, one pull after another, but people don't seem to understand in groups that I'm not going this 'slow' because I'm terrible and don't know how to taunt the next group. I'm doing it because either I can't handle it gearwise yet(My tank isn't extremely geared) or the healer has shown they can't keep up with too much.

So what happens? Random mages blink ahead, icelance 2-3 random groups of shit, wait for the healer to toss a heal, then invis. Ends up with either a wipe, or a very close wipe on TRASH in a HEROIC, because someone couldn't wait the extra, what, 30 seconds total to the runtime?


I CAN usually handle a DPS pulling, but it's annoying, and if the tank asks you to stop more than once and you keep doing it, it's simply disrespectful.

They shouldn't, they should leave the group. That's what I'm saying though.

The onus is on the player regardless of roll. If I was tanking and a DPS started pulling (and surviving for arguments sake) for me there are two options right? Either I start tanking better, or I should leave the group because clearly I'm not at the right skill level to tank for the group I'm in.

Tanks shouldn't get mad at me for pulling (especially when I tell them they can go faster), they should see it as a hint to improve.

Or perhaps you should just leave, since you're obviously far too good for the group and should take the hint by people asking you to stop?

Or is it a "The better player should never have to leave" thing?

[Celista]

So what happens? Random mages blink ahead, icelance 2-3 random groups of shit, wait for the healer to toss a heal, then invis.

Since I'm usually in a healing role, I let these DPS die after the first time they do it, and it was clear it wasn't an accident. Then I /laugh at them.

You're welcome, tanks.

[seam]

Since I'm usually in a healing role, I let these DPS die after the first time they do it, and it was clear it wasn't an accident. Then I /laugh at them.

You're welcome, tanks.

Far too many will just start spamming CDs and heals on the dps until the tank has to pick up threat or watch the healer die ;-;

Makes it hard to let the dps die as a tank.

[Alter Ego Pablo]

I usually play tank but since I'm always chain-pulling I never run into this issue - and since I have this mentally I'm usually the DPS that pulls before the tank has his way.

[Celista]

Far too many will just start spamming CDs and heals on the dps until the tank has to pick up threat or watch the healer die ;-;

I used to do that, then I decided I was promoting bad behavior. If they ignore myself and the tank when we politely ask them to stop pulling, then I'm not going to bother to waste mana on them.

[Deleted]

Because when I'm sitting at 677 ilvl and the tank is like cc everything.... Like lol's?

Because people are egocentric like this ^

[Resurgo]

I like it when the dps pull. I usually make sure I pull a different pack and see who lasts longer

[Nasukkin]

In 5-mans, I'm usually happy to let the tank pull at his own pace. But occasionally, you get that one tank who waits 30+ seconds between pulls while the healer is at full mana. That's when I put MD to good use (if I'm on my Hunter) or I start telling them to hurry up (if I'm on one of my healers). Nothing's worse in this game than a scaredy-tank.

[Deleted]

I pull trash packs, I'm sitting at ilevel 680 as a rogue and I usually do more damage than the rest of the group combined by a huge margin. The only reason I'm even in a 5 man is to complete my inn dailies and I prefer not to draw it out ad-nauseam. If people fragile ego's can't take that then they can either leave or kick me from the party, thankfully it has never come down to that and every party I've been in understands that the rapid pulling is actually benefiting them.