Are brewmasters becoming top of the table?

[Deleted]

Hey, I just saw simcraft posted some sim-results from BRF, and now I'm very bad in understanding what these tank stats mean, but are Brewmasters becoming the best tank so to speak in BrF?

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17N.html

They're in the top of all the tables, but I don't know if it's good or bad to have high TPI rating for example, or generally what these stats stand for.
If someone could give me a heads up that'd be greatly appreciated,

Thanks in advance!!

[Fakie]

These are not from BRF; they do not include set bonuses and such. Simcraft is also very unreliable when it comes to tanks. Real bosses usually have some magic damage, for instance, and resolve will scale vastly different on different bosses and benefits all tanks differently.

[Ironscroll]

I hope not, being top of the pack means, nerf nerf nerf. More so than just being middle of the pack.

[Xequecal]

I'm already at over 20% Mastery from gear, that's over 60% physical absorb, 65% with a Mastery enchant proc. At this point, the Pol's Blinded Eye /use is almost Shield Wall strength on its own, and Fort Brew is 70% damage reduction for 15 seconds, hilarious when compared to like Druids that get 40% for 6 seconds.

If we add 5% in Mythic BRF gear we're going to be at the level where we can solo tank mechanics intended to be soaked by the entire raid, and with a little luck actually hit total damage immunity and tank berserk. If your baseline is 65% then you're at 70% with an enchant proc, that means Pol's Blinded Eye + Fort Brew is 100%.

[Ailylia]

I hope not, being top of the pack means, nerf nerf nerf. More so than just being middle of the pack.

And just like with WW I question the way the thing scales with gear, at top end gear it looks godly, but with average gear it is ... well average. So if an across the board nerf happens, average monks will hurt while top end monks are okay.

[Chuupag]

I'm already at over 20% Mastery from gear.

How many sockets do you have buddy...that seems a bit over the top. I'm at ~15% mastery unbuffed...which means you'd have to have like ~800 more mastery than I do.

[Xequecal]

How many sockets do you have buddy...that seems a bit over the top. I'm at ~15% mastery unbuffed...which means you'd have to have like ~800 more mastery than I do.

I'm unsure if I worded that badly and gave the impression that gear alone is giving the full 20%, rather than being at 5+15% with the 5% baseline Mastery included.

[Chuupag]

I'm unsure if I worded that badly and gave the impression that gear alone is giving the full 20%, rather than being at 5+15% with the 5% baseline Mastery included.

That still doesn't make sense unless you're talking about fully raid buffed. Unbuffed I have just under 15% mastery. Raid buffed that would be 18ish. I can see someone having a lot of mythic gear being 20% fully raid buffed. You're still talking about having a full 5% more mastery than I do which I don't think is possible without a tremendous amount of sockets on mythic gear.

[Deleted]

Monks are getting top notch indeed. They really have a great toolkit including one of the best positional moves (roll).

But I'd say the main strenght of the monk is it's ease of gameplay. For a protpal to be very well played you need to master a lot of different mechanics and execute a very fast paced rotation, a druid rotation is also quite demanding, the warrior is still one of the easiest but the mechanics are intuitive and not too complex. The DK seems easy from afar, but the rune management to maximize the number of death strike is very strange and hard to monitor while looking at the fight.

Monk gameplay is more of a methodical one, the pace of button pressing in monk is the lowest among tanks and most of what makes a BM good at his job is his decision making rather than his execution of actions. The rotation on my monk is so easy that I find myself observing the ranged and what happens in the fight in details, when I play my prot paladin I just can't get my eyes off of my tellmewhen, myself or the targets Im tanking.

In the end, I believe that the rarity of monks is (once more) what makes the class able to be slightly overtuned while not being a very big issue for the devs.

[Xahz]

Monk gameplay is more of a methodical one, the pace of button pressing in monk is the lowest among tanks and most of what makes a BM good at his job is his decision making rather than his execution of actions. The rotation on my monk is so easy that I find myself observing the ranged and what happens in the fight in details, when I play my prot paladin I just can't get my eyes off of my tellmewhen, myself or the targets Im tanking.

What the hell are you talking about? 1sec GCD and constantly mashing Tiger Palm is not low pace. The only world in which BRM is slow is if you're tanking baby mode normals with Serenity. The only tanking class that's even remotely taxing right now is Blood DK, and that's only because runes are retarded with plague leech + blood tap and the default UI is horrible.

Also easy of play has nothing to do with simming.

[Quotey]

i don't think you can call any of the tank classes slow. they all have frequent off gcd actions and are all global capped, or almost global capped (dk/pala) by design.

[tachycardias]

Monks are getting top notch indeed. They really have a great toolkit including one of the best positional moves (roll).

But I'd say the main strenght of the monk is it's ease of gameplay. For a protpal to be very well played you need to master a lot of different mechanics and execute a very fast paced rotation, a druid rotation is also quite demanding, the warrior is still one of the easiest but the mechanics are intuitive and not too complex. The DK seems easy from afar, but the rune management to maximize the number of death strike is very strange and hard to monitor while looking at the fight.

Monk gameplay is more of a methodical one, the pace of button pressing in monk is the lowest among tanks and most of what makes a BM good at his job is his decision making rather than his execution of actions. The rotation on my monk is so easy that I find myself observing the ranged and what happens in the fight in details, when I play my prot paladin I just can't get my eyes off of my tellmewhen, myself or the targets Im tanking.

In the end, I believe that the rarity of monks is (once more) what makes the class able to be slightly overtuned while not being a very big issue for the devs.

No. I suspect you're a troll. Our global is 1 sec and we fill every single one. On top of that you have EB and PB off the gcd and movement is significantly more complex with GOx orbs. I'm frequently pressing three different buttons doing there different things for several gcd's in a row. The 'rotation' might be less complex than druid but there's so much more to monk than rotation. On druid and Paladin you mostly just press stuff when it lights up. I don't think watching tellmewhen counts as difficult. I don't think I'm the only one, almost everyone lists BM as the most complex tank.

[Dogchow]

No. I suspect you're a troll. Our global is 1 sec and we fill every single one. On top of that you have EB and PB off the gcd and movement is significantly more complex with GOx orbs. I'm frequently pressing three different buttons doing there different things for several gcd's in a row. The 'rotation' might be less complex than druid but there's so much more to monk than rotation. On druid and Paladin you mostly just press stuff when it lights up. I don't think watching tellmewhen counts as difficult. I don't think I'm the only one, almost everyone lists BM as the most complex tank.

Monk definitely is the most complex tank. Even an average monk tank is still worse than a below average any other tank. Stagger and chi/energy management dictates between the average and great monk tanks.

[ScharfAsATack]

Don't feed the trolls.

[Xahz]

Monk definitely is the most complex tank. Even an average monk tank is still worse than a below average any other tank. Stagger and chi/energy management dictates between the average and great monk tanks.

Now you're going too far in the other direction. They're not slow paced or easy by any means, but they're not complex either. "Stagger management" is not a thing anymore with Serenity, since you will have 100% uptime on Shuffle with basically no effort and all your Chi can go to cleanse. Pretty much everyone thinks their class is the most difficult to play, but monks are not any harder than most classes. Saying otherwise is just arrogance thinking you're a better player for "mastering" a complicated class.

[Mollify]

Monk gameplay is more of a methodical one, the pace of button pressing in monk is the lowest among tanks...

In the event you don't believe anyone else: take a look at the top BrM's vs. other tanks on Warcraft Logs. Look at the "casts" per fight. You'll find BrM typically has a higher "APM" than other tank classes.

[Quotey]

In the event you don't believe anyone else: take a look at the top BrM's vs. other tanks on Warcraft Logs. Look at the "casts" per fight. You'll find BrM typically has a higher "APM" than other tank classes.

comparing apm between classes is worthless. it counts each individual chi burst heal/damage as 1 action (i dont cast 300 of them in a fight) and gift of the ox shows up 3 times (spawn, pickup, timeout) among other things.

[firence]

Simcraft is being tweaked constantly and the outputs are a reflection of that. The main difference I see in BrM ratings improvement comes from ToD being included with the rotation when it hadn't been previously.
code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/source/detail?r=3d4a598191f7ab438d29f16621163926aa40bc31

[Xequecal]

That still doesn't make sense unless you're talking about fully raid buffed. Unbuffed I have just under 15% mastery. Raid buffed that would be 18ish. I can see someone having a lot of mythic gear being 20% fully raid buffed. You're still talking about having a full 5% more mastery than I do which I don't think is possible without a tremendous amount of sockets on mythic gear.

Hrm, I missed this. I have 2140 Mastery unbuffed. Double Phemos slashers and Mastery on every piece of gear except the legendary ring and Pol's trinket. Crafted pieces with Mastery in chest/helm/leg slots, shoulders and bracers are Deep Walker Paulders and Spare Skin bracers with socketed Mastery, necklace is the 660 PvP one with BA and Mastery. Every other slot is just the regular HM drop that has Mastery naturally. Haven't killed Mythic Imperator, but I got lucky enough to get a Mythic Warforged Evergaze Arcane Eidolon with a socket from the follower cache, so that helps a lot.

Note that this isn't the highest possible if you're willing to extensively min/max, I could get to about 2200 if I was willing to constantly reroll my crafted items until I hit a 130/180 split between the other secondary and Mastery, which AFAIK is the most Mastery you can get from a piece.

[Nouway]

Haven't killed Mythic Imperator, but I got lucky enough to get a Mythic Warforged Evergaze Arcane Eidolon with a socket from the follower cache, so that helps a lot.

I'm so jealous right now... my last 2 crates gave me a Crit/Haste neck.