I have a Trail for a DPS spot in a guild tonight; Arms or Fury on ST?

[Calm]

Hey guys. I have a trial run for a DPS spot in a heroic/mythic guild tonight. Last week I for sure would have gone arms on 7/7 fights. Fury might be a tad better on butcher, but this week after the hotfix, I'm not really sure if I should be playing arms for butcher, kargath, koragh, or imp. This is really my first shot at a decent guild, and I want to make a good impresion. My fury isn't great (I can't quite hit my sim number after a long time of trying, but I can just breach the low end of the sim range if I try really hard), but I can meet my sim on arms.

I'm just not sure if I'm going to be making a bad impression taking arms to ST fights. Before the nerf, you could definitely justify using arms; after the nerf, however, I'm just not sure if it's in the same ballpark as fury anymore. Assuming you were in my position, would you try arms for all the fights and hope things go well, or break out the 1H's and go fury for ST fights?

I don't know how much help it is, but here are some logs from last week if you'd like to see about where my gear/execution level is.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Thanks!

[Deleted]

fury > arms on ST after hotfix. the difference is actualy huge atm.

up:
i know that simulationcrafts are often incorrect compare to real game but that shows what is the difference atm

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17N.html

before the nerf arms was equal to fury.

after the nerf arms is in pretty much in the same spot before 12.01 Hotfix (57.1 mastery buff)

right now i had to remove prot-offspec in favor of fury (i hate that spec) to be viable once again on single target fights. that rly not fun at all

[Deleted]

Hey guys. I have a trial run for a DPS spot in a heroic/mythic guild tonight. Last week I for sure would have gone arms on 7/7 fights. Fury might be a tad better on butcher, but this week after the hotfix, I'm not really sure if I should be playing arms for butcher, kargath, koragh, or imp. This is really my first shot at a decent guild, and I want to make a good impresion. My fury isn't great (I can't quite hit my sim number after a long time of trying, but I can just breach the low end of the sim range if I try really hard), but I can meet my sim on arms.

I'm just not sure if I'm going to be making a bad impression taking arms to ST fights. Before the nerf, you could definitely justify using arms; after the nerf, however, I'm just not sure if it's in the same ballpark as fury anymore. Assuming you were in my position, would you try arms for all the fights and hope things go well, or break out the 1H's and go fury for ST fights?

I don't know how much help it is, but here are some logs from last week if you'd like to see about where my gear/execution level is.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Thanks!

Hi mate, I doubt you'd make a bad impression sticking with Arms on ST. if the guild are progressing on Mythic they'll probably be killing bosses a little faster than the guild in your log, which lends itself to the big opener/big execute nature of Arms. just make sure you're making the absolute best of your Execute phase and talents - it might be worth examining this guild's logs to see their killtimes so you can plan cooldown usage and choose between Ravager and Anger Management.

I stuck with Arms this week post-nerf and the single target was still comparable to Fury with a good execute phase, I managed to beat our Fury Warrior on ST on a couple of fights this week, and he's a better player than me. for your Butcher log it looks like your previous guild is doing a BL at ~30% and you might have popped Reck/Avatar/Potion at 30% too. if you're rolling Arms ST and you want to be competitive in 99% of situations you want to save those cooldowns for execute. BL or not, hit 20% with 120 rage, colossus smash, reck, avatar, strength potion and scabbard (if you don't have it, get it ASAP) and hit 6 massive executes to absolutely fly up the damage meter.

if you can't make the best of the execute phase then stick Fury for ST. maybe join a normal or LFR just to practise it?

[Deleted]

Breaching the simulated number as Fury is hit or miss, at least from what I've found.

If you're progressing you might see it happen frequently over the span of your tries for the night, but if the boss is on farm and dies in the matter of 1-2(3) tries, then I'd say the chances of doing so are slim.

This is solely based on the fact that despite how well you play Fury, there is an inherent RNG factor to consider that can completely wreck your performance on the one try. On the other hand, you can have an amazing run and do very well.

Arms on the other hand is less RNG based and will net you more consistent results. After the (technical) nerf to Arms, we're still doing really well on Single target fights - and we are in fact ahead of where we originally started (contradictory to what someone else stated in this thread).

The notion that Arms is not viable for single targets couldn't be farther from the truth. This is one of the cases where SimCraft can not be regarded as the whole truth - without custom APL's and/or modified Execute phases. That's where Arms will work it's real magic.

tldr; Fury for the gambler, Arms for the safe bet. On single target.

[Deleted]

Breaching the simulated number as Fury is hit or miss, at least from what I've found.

If you're progressing you might see it happen frequently over the span of your tries for the night, but if the boss is on farm and dies in the matter of 1-2(3) tries, then I'd say the chances of doing so are slim.

This is solely based on the fact that despite how well you play Fury, there is an inherent RNG factor to consider that can completely wreck your performance on the one try. On the other hand, you can have an amazing run and do very well.

Arms on the other hand is less RNG based and will net you more consistent results. After the (technical) nerf to Arms, we're still doing really well on Single target fights - and we are in fact ahead of where we originally started (contradictory to what someone else stated in this thread).

The notion that Arms is not viable for single targets couldn't be farther from the truth. This is one of the cases where SimCraft can not be regarded as the whole truth - without custom APL's and/or modified Execute phases. That's where Arms will work it's real magic.

tldr; Fury for the gambler, Arms for the safe bet. On single target.

amen.

Arms will spike between 150-300k DPS during the execute phase, which is something Simcraft is not yet set up to account for — the same reason it undervalues Scabbard so much.

worth noting that Execute cheesing is also a valid increase for Fury that's not reflected in Simcraft, but Arms is the undisputed king of exceeding expectations.

the #8 world ranking on Butcher Mythic is an Arms Warrior, 42k dps. granted, that's pre-mastery nerf, but the amount by which that DPS exceeds the simmed DPS is far greater than the % nerf Arms received with the hotfix.

[Deleted]

Breaching the simulated number as Fury is hit or miss, at least from what I've found.

If you're progressing you might see it happen frequently over the span of your tries for the night, but if the boss is on farm and dies in the matter of 1-2(3) tries, then I'd say the chances of doing so are slim.

This is solely based on the fact that despite how well you play Fury, there is an inherent RNG factor to consider that can completely wreck your performance on the one try. On the other hand, you can have an amazing run and do very well.

Arms on the other hand is less RNG based and will net you more consistent results. After the (technical) nerf to Arms, we're still doing really well on Single target fights - and we are in fact ahead of where we originally started (contradictory to what someone else stated in this thread).

The notion that Arms is not viable for single targets couldn't be farther from the truth. This is one of the cases where SimCraft can not be regarded as the whole truth - without custom APL's and/or modified Execute phases. That's where Arms will work it's real magic.

tldr; Fury for the gambler, Arms for the safe bet. On single target.

Actually Arms is far more RNG dependent than fury atm. If you dont crit/multistrike alot in your superbuffed execute CS window then you can easily lose 10-20% of your total dps. Fury PLAYSTYLE might be very random, but the dps output on a regular fight seems rather stable.

[Deleted]

Actually Arms is far more RNG dependent than fury atm. If you dont crit/multistrike alot in your superbuffed execute CS window then you can easily lose 10-20% of your total dps. Fury PLAYSTYLE might be very random, but the dps output on a regular fight seems rather stable.

Which further asserts my point, that Fury is more dependent on a good crit run than Arms, seeing as Arms is only ever really crit dependent during that 6 second window.

()

Recklessness won't save a bad Fury run, and a bad Fury run will be below your average Arms run.

An Arms run will be fairly stable throughout your attempts as it is not very RNG based (SD) up until the point of Aloha Snackbar Execute Time. At which point, Recklessness should technically grant you 2 Execute Crits (given a 50% chance). That alone is good enough for me to respectfully pass on the hell that is a 3rd Non-Crit BT, and save my frustrations for the 1/2 cases where I don't get my

On the subject of damage being stable; When killing the Butcher (roughly the same gear level between resets), I've seen Fury differ by as much as 12k in total damage output. Whereas Arms has steadily been 2-3k apart from run to run.

But again; If someone wants to go off and nail that Fury run, go for it. Nothing is stopping you from doing so. Choosing Fury over Arms or vice versa, won't make or break the killing of a boss in the current tier.

This is all based on my personal experience, and the numbers I've been crunching. I haven't crosschecked much with other warriors, nor have I paid much attention to Fury since the 21st of January nerfs.

[senturion]

Here is a great tip I use to pass my trials...

Unequip your gear down to lower ilevels with better stats. Stay below 664 ilevel and you'd so much better against your ilevel band vs being at the bottom of the next ilebvel 664-674 band.

[Smittzz]

Here is a great tip I use to pass my trials...

Unequip your gear down to lower ilevels with better stats. Stay below 664 ilevel and you'd so much better against your ilevel band vs being at the bottom of the next ilebvel 664-674 band.

Sounds like a great idea
/Kappa

OT just play arms yolo

[Deleted]

Arms is stronger than Fury as Arms even after the "nerf". Fury is competible to Arms on Kargath, Butcher and Ko'ragh tho so pick the one you feel the most comfortable with as you'll perform better.

[Rusken]

Play what you're most comfortable performing with. A good arms who handles mechanics while DPSing well is far far far more valuable than a good arms who's playing fury just because it's theoretically higher ST and is missing mechanics because he doesn't know the fury rotation well enough. As far as first impressions go, a Mythic guild should be looking more at your overall awareness rather than just dps. Unless you're pulling <20k because you're not focused (or <25k for Mythic) you should be fine.

[masterprtzl]

Kargath / Butcher / Imp / Koragh I find fury to be better. Rest of them I swap to arms. This is just my personal experience with the specs, I am much better at fury that I am at arms though.

[Deleted]

Which further asserts my point, that Fury is more dependent on a good crit run than Arms, seeing as Arms is only ever really crit dependent during that 6 second window.

()

Recklessness won't save a bad Fury run, and a bad Fury run will be below your average Arms run.

An Arms run will be fairly stable throughout your attempts as it is not very RNG based (SD) up until the point of Aloha Snackbar Execute Time. At which point, Recklessness should technically grant you 2 Execute Crits (given a 50% chance). That alone is good enough for me to respectfully pass on the hell that is a 3rd Non-Crit BT, and save my frustrations for the 1/2 cases where I don't get my

On the subject of damage being stable; When killing the Butcher (roughly the same gear level between resets), I've seen Fury differ by as much as 12k in total damage output. Whereas Arms has steadily been 2-3k apart from run to run.

But again; If someone wants to go off and nail that Fury run, go for it. Nothing is stopping you from doing so. Choosing Fury over Arms or vice versa, won't make or break the killing of a boss in the current tier.

This is all based on my personal experience, and the numbers I've been crunching. I haven't crosschecked much with other warriors, nor have I paid much attention to Fury since the 21st of January nerfs.

I think the point he wanted to make was that about 20-30% of your damage depends on that CD popped CS window so every non crit affects your damage output by a Huge margin, and as you said 50% chance is a big RNG when that much damage is on the line. But I agree, overall fury seems to be the more unstable spec throughout, from my experience anyway.

[Deleted]

simcraft fury and simcraft arms, check dps table between minimun, Maximum and check how many bars are near average in the Diagramm - now you see which is more consistent.

but you better choose the spec which you are more confident, you are likely to perform better this way instead of forcing yourself doing something you are not used to.

[Wulfey]

I think Fury's rotation is much easier. No DOT timer to watch. Just spam with a BT rhythm.

[Deleted]

Fury has still many things to watch. Your procs play big role in RB damage, so you have to track RB duration to make sure your RB don't expire, because you'll pretty much camp with 1 RB stack throughout the fight so you don't use it as soon as possible without any DPS increasing buff. Another thing is enrage timer which is imo more complicated to track than Rend uptime.
I mean, it's small things in general that aren't really complicated at all, I don't consider those specs really hard to play, but I find Arms a bit easier because it gives you more time to think. I guess it goes down to player, but as said before. the spec you feel most comfortable will be the spec you'll perform the best with, unless you know how to play both specs perfectly, but then you wouldn't open this thread..

[Sylreick]

Sims need to be taken with a grain of salt. They tend to expect perfect play with perfect conditions and latency, and usually will not be hit. The only thing that can be done is play what feels comfortable and what you're more familiar with, this will put you in a better position than playing a spec you're not used to, just because it sims higher.

[Deleted]

Sims can be Setup to be nonperfect though in that case they may do really stupid things. Still and because of that they are a good measurement for Performance between different gears and talents.

[PowerGamez]

Play which ever you prefer. You're only doing heroic so it's not like you need to me 100% min/maxing. Both are viable and within a few % of each other.

If you must min/max (Mythic fights):

Kargath: Either
Butcher: Either
Brack: Arms
Tectus: Arms
Twins: Arms
Ko'ragh: Arms
Margok: Either (depends on how many Enhance Shamans you have)