PTR Patch 6.1 Necrotic Plague, BoS, Death Siphon buffed.

[Milocow]

i dont wanna qoute all of you, anyway here is the thing you dont seem to understand, class specific talents blizz wanted to remove 2 expacs ago and they did just not well done with dk, they want them to be situational not specc wise.

mage/warlock talents say hi

[Maxweii]

mage/warlock talents say hi

And Warriors as well
I didn't want to bother responding but yeah there's plenty of spec specific talents

[Deleted]

Wohoo NP buff!
BoS. So for now, bos doesnt have cost for cast, only 15rp/sec?
Dsip. Is it now stronger heal/runecost than DS for unholy/frost?

[teh1tom]

Ignoring all the back and forth about spec diversity, it looks like Skullflower did some sims with the buffed NP. Looking great for Unholy (which I love!), especially single target.
Skullflower google doc

Seriously though how am I suppose to trust this.


On a side note someone please break down the damage gain for Ret Paladin T17 set bonuses and compare it to Death Knight T17 set bonuses.

[Deleted]

Retri gains 3226 dps and Unholy gains 658 dps going from 0pc to 4pc setbonus. There is a google docs spreadsheet by Dutchmagoz but I have too few posts to link it, you can see all the classes benefits from the setbonuses. Unholy Death Knight is by far the one who benefits the least. 1.61% dps increase compared to fire, elemental and arms who all gain 11%+

[Deleted]

Any chance someone could sim the new alchemy trinkets against the current BrF ones, had a look at skulls excellent guide but they are not included. My simcraft knowledge doesn't go passed importing and simming my own chars......i should really learn i know, thanks in advance if someone can!!

[slade1135]

I'm suspecting the Necrotic Plague buff was intended to lean towards Frost, since they didn't have much reason to use it. For my unholy raiding, though, I have only had one or two fights wherein Defile was worth using. Now there'll be none. That's more in line with what I wanted at the start of WoD.

[Schizoide]

I'm suspecting the Necrotic Plague buff was intended to lean towards Frost, since they didn't have much reason to use it.

That is clearly not correct, as it was buffed baseline. If they intended to buff it for frost only, they would have special-cased it for frost. (As we've been asking them to do since beta.)

[Deleted]

Mate, you need to calm down and look at the specs with a distance. NP gets buffed, for frost and for unholy. That's the bottom line. That FS is extending NP doesn't change. It's already here. It's been like that since NP was introduced. Whinging about FS extending a talented disease now about 2 months into the expansion is a bit late.

To me it seems you're talking about it now, because for the first time NP actually seems to become competetive under normal circumstances. But guess what, that doesn't change your frost playstyle. In fact, you get a portion of that buff, too. And since frost single target was slightly ahead of unholy, it's okay that you get a slightly less powerful buff because you can't fester the disease into infinity.

Everyone in the thread that responded to you understood your point. I suggest you don't repeat yourself again, it makes you seem... overeager. What you need to understand now is what they're saying. They're saying you're whinging about a spec specific ability (FS) on the occasion of a buff to a disease. It doesn't make sense in the context. You should've complained months ago, not now. The only option you have right now is complaining about the buff to NP.

Or... well, I guess you could complain about unholy in general. That makes more sense. I suggest "Abolish Unholy" as a theme, it's catchy.

You mean Unholy gets a straight buff towards NP and frost gets the talents "useable" ? defile will still be better than it in almost every scenario.

i am calm, im just telling you you are trying to do maths and defending things wich is not good mechanicsly and game wise for any game what so ever.

We can all have diffrent approaches and diffrent ideas, and sit back and look at things an get a diffrent view and discuss it im fine with that, more than enuff ive had my discussions and we are all diffrent.

However when some things are so insanely wrong, and just Becuse you play a specific specc you defend it?
This forum is not wow-europe pvp forum with qq:s its about discussing design balance things that might need to be adress and find flaws and good things.

im sorry if it came out the way that you think i went harsh that was not what i ment with that i said, bad wording my me i guess.

however i dont get how you can defend it and say One talent should be striclty for said specc and not work for others and we SHOULD have 1 more talent to choose from than us, We are the superior specc hur durr, this is not how you should discuss things here imo.

[teh1tom]

Retri gains 3226 dps and Unholy gains 658 dps going from 0pc to 4pc setbonus. There is a google docs spreadsheet by Dutchmagoz but I have too few posts to link it, you can see all the classes benefits from the setbonuses. Unholy Death Knight is by far the one who benefits the least. 1.61% dps increase compared to fire, elemental and arms who all gain 11%+

Thanks I found it if anyone else is wondering.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0
R.I.P. Unholy

[jellyfrog]

I'm suspecting the Necrotic Plague buff was intended to lean towards Frost, since they didn't have much reason to use it. For my unholy raiding, though, I have only had one or two fights wherein Defile was worth using. Now there'll be none. That's more in line with what I wanted at the start of WoD.

Well if your raid is playing competently Defile was/is the best talent choice on almost every fight in Highmaul.

[3DTyrant]

Bye Defile, twas fun using you, 2H Frost BoS here I come (unless it's crap for a 2h Frost DK)

[Grimdeeds]

Regarding PTR status as of 1/25, I guess the big list of 6.1 changes is not (fully?) implemented yet? I am testing BoS and the initial 15 RP cost still seems to be there. Regarding NP damage, harder for me to assess, but doesn't seem to be buffed yet on PTR.

I was wondering if anyone can confirm/deny?

[Slant]

however i dont get how you can defend it and say One talent should be striclty for said specc and not work for others and we SHOULD have 1 more talent to choose from than us, We are the superior specc hur durr, this is not how you should discuss things here imo.

I think here's the main problem. You're talking about Festering Strike as if Frost should have access to it. In fact, it's a very specific spell that's built into the spec for a reason. You could say that half of the rotation is designed around that ability. So of course, if a disease gets buffed, Unholy profits more from it, because it's built into the spec that Unholy can abuse diseases. That's the whole point of the spec right now. Our ghoul army is shite, our pet is shite and if it wasn't for the Gargoyle I'd deny we're a so called "pet class" at all. Right now, we are a melee dotter regarding NP. That's where a big, big chunk of our damage comes from. Without that, we have nothing. SS hits like the proverbial wet noodle and DC's main attraction is in fact that it's a flying skull.

Now, Frost on the other hand, you're designed as a traditional direct damage type of person. Especially 2h Frost is all about upfront physical damage in your face. That's where your levers are at. So, when Blood Boil (our #1 AE spell at that time) gets nerfed by 33% (yes, that is the biggest nerf of such kind in a long fucking time, that's how big that nerf was), you are absolutely not affected at all, since your AE comes from HBing the hell out of anything in the vicinity. Then NP gets buffed for about 30%, and guess what, if you choose to pick NP, you profit from those 30%, too... and now you're here telling us we're biased? Nah, mate... that doesn't fly. They're giving us back the fucking dmg they ripped from BB via NP and that's proper. And in the meantime, you never got nerfed and still get the buff... So, this is all about fairness? Then think about that for a while...

In other news, Skull did some sims in the other thread that show how bloody close both Frost and Unholy are going to be. How about you chillax and enjoy that right now you can actually play whatever you like and you'll be fine. Tuning has never been as balanced as it is now.

On a side note: I bet my next mythic loot that you and I both could profit more from improving our positioning and playstyle than hurting our head trying to decide which specs the definite answer to "moar dps plz!".

[Deleted]

^SS does NOT hit like a wet noodle. Yes, the "maximum hit" will always be low but thats because its split in half (not to mention all the crits and multistrikes that happen).

[Schizoide]

ScS hit pretty hard before the most recent buff. That's why Festerblight was a DPS loss vs. normal unholy with NP.

Now it's a freakin' truck for the one rune cost.

[Slant]

^SS does NOT hit like a wet noodle. Yes, the "maximum hit" will always be low but thats because its split in half (not to mention all the crits and multistrikes that happen).

Meh, you're right. But when I compare my 13k+13k average on Butcher to a 60k average on Butcher... (that's 52k for two runes compared to 60k and it feels like poking with a needle :P) it at least feels like a wet noodle. That's why we have our dots and that's why I'm making the point that Frost is all about being in your face with Oblits while we get to play with dots.

The point I'm making is that the balance is okay. That's all.

[Deleted]

I think here's the main problem. You're talking about Festering Strike as if Frost should have access to it. In fact, it's a very specific spell that's built into the spec for a reason. You could say that half of the rotation is designed around that ability. So of course, if a disease gets buffed, Unholy profits more from it, because it's built into the spec that Unholy can abuse diseases. That's the whole point of the spec right now. Our ghoul army is shite, our pet is shite and if it wasn't for the Gargoyle I'd deny we're a so called "pet class" at all. Right now, we are a melee dotter regarding NP. That's where a big, big chunk of our damage comes from. Without that, we have nothing. SS hits like the proverbial wet noodle and DC's main attraction is in fact that it's a flying skull.

Now, Frost on the other hand, you're designed as a traditional direct damage type of person. Especially 2h Frost is all about upfront physical damage in your face. That's where your levers are at. So, when Blood Boil (our #1 AE spell at that time) gets nerfed by 33% (yes, that is the biggest nerf of such kind in a long fucking time, that's how big that nerf was), you are absolutely not affected at all, since your AE comes from HBing the hell out of anything in the vicinity. Then NP gets buffed for about 30%, and guess what, if you choose to pick NP, you profit from those 30%, too... and now you're here telling us we're biased? Nah, mate... that doesn't fly. They're giving us back the fucking dmg they ripped from BB via NP and that's proper. And in the meantime, you never got nerfed and still get the buff... So, this is all about fairness? Then think about that for a while...

In other news, Skull did some sims in the other thread that show how bloody close both Frost and Unholy are going to be. How about you chillax and enjoy that right now you can actually play whatever you like and you'll be fine. Tuning has never been as balanced as it is now.

On a side note: I bet my next mythic loot that you and I both could profit more from improving our positioning and playstyle than hurting our head trying to decide which specs the definite answer to "moar dps plz!".

Let me correct you know there is many things you dont have a a clue about even your own class in another specc you dont are aware of, prior to nerf to bb BB was our AOE it dealt more dmg than HB,yes hb you heard right howling blast.

Now it deals almost the same, so yes your cleave got nerfed, it should gotten nerfed your aoe was to good, other classes speccs, boomkin was only one remotly close to you.

about festring strike, i am not saying you should not have that what i am saying is the design of necrotic plague? do you follow me?

I am not saying remove unholys spell from their rotation and fiddling to much with them, i am saying fix mechanicly necrotic plague so it works for our specc without any handicap that increases its effectiveness signifigantly wich festering strike does to NP.

That means, A change festering strike to do somthing diffrent without suffering your dps, like it increases the dmg your dots deal for a set amount of time. instead of increasing the duration.

Or B change so necrotic plague does somthing diffrent for frost, ex when it detonates you get dmg buff for X seconds, not to high numbers but to compensate, or that it increases the rune regeneration.

and blood gets a small reduced dmg taken, and keeping it as it is for Unholy, might fiddle a little bit with it but it scales better for unholy due to mastery being complete shit for frost2h.

Or C just remove it from ticking away have it as the old dots just that it increases its dmg so the dot deals more dmg, boring as hell but a solution.

i dont let me even start with dw frost those who want to play is so far off and needs some love even more.

they are not even close to any of us, better at aoe than 2h due to mastery, but not even close to unholy, and their st is laughtable at best if concidering to uholy and 2h frost.


I know tuning and class balances have been worse been playing since vanilla, anyway what i am saying is a talent should never inflict a talent to be effected as much as festering strike effects necrotic plague, that said i am not saying remove or nerf unholy im saying fix it so its as valuable for all 3 speccs, without any of the speccs gets ignored or hurt or catered special treatment.

[Maxweii]

I could pick plenty away at that plenty, but the whole Frost getting to use PL on the last tick of NP is a benefit in and of itself compared to Unholy not being able to do that. More runes is always a less empty rotation

[Deleted]

I could pick plenty away at that plenty, but the whole Frost getting to use PL on the last tick of NP is a benefit in and of itself compared to Unholy not being able to do that. More runes is always a less empty rotation

To me this just backs up the case NP is badly designed. Frost loses so much of it's potential having to wait for the stacks to increase and refreshing it to a point that defile will always deal more damage, and unholy is pretty much forced to use unholy blight to make use of NP, if we didn't have have UB then it'd be a bad talent for unholy aswell.