Gear/Sim Question For Affliction Only

[uhhwateva]

As the title suggests, I have a quick gearing question for Affliction spec only. I'm currently using a Hexweave Robe with 178 Haste + 134 Mastery. It's the ilvl 670 version. But today, out of my Mythic cache, I got the Robes of Arcane Ultimatum (chest off of Imperator). I lose all that Haste + Mastery, but I gain 189 Crit + 181 Multi and 37 Int.

Now, the normal response is to sim it and check it out. On the sims, I find my overall DPS number increases with the Mythic robe, but all of my DoTs and even Drain Soul do less DPS individually...

I was wondering which robe I should use (this is again, purely for Affliction), and maybe some explanations as to why? I'm aware Haste > Mastery > everything else, but what's the deal with this odd situation in the sims?

[Deleted]

The ilvl difference makes the mythic chest a no brainer. The intellect and greater stat budget makes up for it.

[uhhwateva]

The ilvl difference makes the mythic chest a no brainer. The intellect and greater stat budget makes up for it.

I want to re-iterate; even for strictly an Affliction lock?

Maybe I'm thinking far too deeply into this but, humor me;

Haste is integral because of not only the DPS you gain but the Nightfall procs coming more frequently. Wouldn't losing all that Haste hurt you?

I mean, sure I simmed higher with the Mythic chest but again what was weird to me was the DPS number was higher but each individual DoT and Drain Soul all did less DPS...

I guess I'm looking for some more clarification... but is it really just "higher ilvl = more int = better regardless of secondary stat priorities"?

Thanks for the reply.

[FurtyIRL]

I want to re-iterate; even for strictly an Affliction lock?

Maybe I'm thinking far too deeply into this but, humor me;

Haste is integral because of not only the DPS you gain but the Nightfall procs coming more frequently. Wouldn't losing all that Haste hurt you?

I mean, sure I simmed higher with the Mythic chest but again what was weird to me was the DPS number was higher but each individual DoT and Drain Soul all did less DPS...

I guess I'm looking for some more clarification... but is it really just "higher ilvl = more int = better regardless of secondary stat priorities"?

Thanks for the reply.

Yes. Sometimes in the case of warforged poorly itemized vs. vanilla well itemized then the itemization is more important, but heroic to mythic the int will make up for it in 99% of cases if you're not breaking tier.

[Slicer299]

I'll break it down into numbers for you. Using default PvE stat weights for Affliction via AskMrRobot, while not perfect is still a good baseline, this is how the numbers break down.

You lose:
178 Haste at 0.64 = 113.92
134 Mastery at 0.63 = 84.42
Total Loss = 198.34

You gain:
37 Intellect at 1 = 37
189 Crit at 0.5 = 94
181 Multi at 0.49 = 88.69
Total gain = 219.69

Difference, total gain = 21.35

Now those numbers are not a direct correlation of DPS lost or gained, but in terms of stat weights, you are gaining more than 10% by equipping your new item. If we still had breakpoints for Haste things may be different, not having them any more makes things a little easier.

[SpikeySquad]

Well if you have simmed then you will notice that your secondary stats are still pretty close together (or are at least for me) with Intellect still being king and hence why a 15 item level upgrade wins. Yes, haste and mastery are the best (again for me) but if you do the calculations of normalised numbers X each stat (or get a lovely addon that does it automatically) then you will see the overall worth of an item. So yes you lose perhaps some DoT ticks but you are gaining damage in other areas (or should be if you simmed higher).

[Cathbadh]

My rule of thumb this expansion has been: if ilvl is 10 higher, always go with the higher ilvl. Anything less and I'll check the stat weights.

[Slicer299]

My rule of thumb this expansion has been: if ilvl is 10 higher, always go with the higher ilvl. Anything less and I'll check the stat weights.

Fairly close to the mark in most cases. Example, the neck piece from Highmaul is not ideal for affliction, but the 665 BoE neck is perfect in terms of stats and is better than the Heroic one.

[uhhwateva]

Thanks for all of the help guys, it is appreciated.

[FurtyIRL]

I'll break it down into numbers for you. Using default PvE stat weights for Affliction via AskMrRobot, while not perfect is still a good baseline, this is how the numbers break down.

You lose:
178 Haste at 0.64 = 113.92
134 Mastery at 0.63 = 84.42
Total Loss = 198.34

You gain:
37 Intellect at 1 = 37
189 Crit at 0.5 = 94
181 Multi at 0.49 = 88.69
Total gain = 219.69

Difference, total gain = 21.35

Now those numbers are not a direct correlation of DPS lost or gained, but in terms of stat weights, you are gaining more than 10% by equipping your new item. If we still had breakpoints for Haste things may be different, not having them any more makes things a little easier.

If AMR is valuing crit equal to mastery as affy it is most definitely not a good baseline.

[Slicer299]

If AMR is valuing crit equal to mastery as affy it is most definitely not a good baseline.

Its not, read what I posted again.

Mastery is 0.63, almost equal to Haste which is 0.64.

Crit is 0.50, more than 20% lower than Mastery.


What you did was you only looked at point values, which isn't a valid direct comparison since the stat budget is obviously higher on the Mythic item. But even with 55 more Crit on the Mythic item compared to the Mastery on the Heroic item, the Mastery still had a higher point value than the Crit.

The point value is the rating multiplied by the stat weight, and the stat weight for Crit is significantly lower than Mastery for Affliction.

[FurtyIRL]

Its not, read what I posted again.

Mastery is 0.63, almost equal to Haste which is 0.64.

Crit is 0.50, more than 20% lower than Mastery.


What you did was you only looked at point values, which isn't a valid direct comparison since the stat budget is obviously higher on the Mythic item. But even with 55 more Crit on the Mythic item compared to the Mastery on the Heroic item, the Mastery still had a higher point value than the Crit.

The point value is the rating multiplied by the stat weight, and the stat weight for Crit is significantly lower than Mastery for Affliction.

For some reason my brain autocorrected Multi to Mastery like an idiot. Regardless I still think AMR is overvaluing haste and undervaluing mastery relative to each other and to the other stats. Seems a lot more reasonable than before though!

[Slicer299]

For some reason my brain autocorrected Multi to Mastery like an idiot. Regardless I still think AMR is overvaluing haste and undervaluing mastery relative to each other and to the other stats. Seems a lot more reasonable than before though!

It has Haste and Mastery basically equal, they have difference of 0.01 strictly because no stat weight system works if two stats have exactly the same value. And there is really no real life case where two stats will ever be 100% equal. Haste is just slightly better than Mastery, especially with the recent Haste buff. It nets more DPS for both Demonic Serv and SB:Haunt. DS for your pet's casting speed and shard generation for SB:Haunt.

As far as their weight compared to other stats, yeah, that's completely accurate too. Neither Crit, Multi or Vers is good for Affliction. Haste and Mastery, those are the only two stats that matter and there needs to be a compelling reason, like a significant gain in Intellect, for us to take Crit, Multi or Vers over Haste or Mastery. If we have to split hairs, Crit and Multi are equally good as far as non-optimal stats and both are slightly better than Vers. Which is exactly what the stat weights reflect on AMR for a baseline.

Getting into real world situations things may be different because many or most players have to concern themselves with their offspec. But the OP strictly wanted info on Affliction and Affliction only. I personally gear for Haste and Mastery, but enchant for Mastery since I offspec as Demo, and because I have Mythic SoN. With Mythic SoN, +30% haste from Dark Soul x2 or Bloodlust, I get more Haste than is optimal when anyone of those three things is active.

[FurtyIRL]

Getting into real world situations things may be different because many or most players have to concern themselves with their offspec. But the OP strictly wanted info on Affliction and Affliction only. I personally gear for Haste and Mastery, but enchant for Mastery since I offspec as Demo, and because I have Mythic SoN. With Mythic SoN, +30% haste from Dark Soul x2 or Bloodlust, I get more Haste than is optimal when anyone of those three things is active.

Real world situations are basically all I concern myself with. In my experience in Highmaul and based off pre-raid sims Mastery noticeably outperforms haste, especially in a multi target scenario (which is every fight except Butcher). Mastery also performs better on shorter encounters whereas haste serves more as a dampener for shard rng on longer encounters — basically, Mastery is better for 4 minute butcher as well. MS and Crit are roughly equal though this early on I prefer MS because it's cheaper and more reliable, leaving less room for good or bad rng. Basically AMR is wrong, though that's nothing new — it's a tool and you're expected to sim your own character and input your own stat weights since they vary dynamically.

[Slicer299]

Real world situations are basically all I concern myself with. In my experience in Highmaul and based off pre-raid sims Mastery noticeably outperforms haste, especially in a multi target scenario (which is every fight except Butcher). Mastery also performs better on shorter encounters whereas haste serves more as a dampener for shard rng on longer encounters — basically, Mastery is better for 4 minute butcher as well. MS and Crit are roughly equal though this early on I prefer MS because it's cheaper and more reliable, leaving less room for good or bad rng. Basically AMR is wrong, though that's nothing new — it's a tool and you're expected to sim your own character and input your own stat weights since they vary dynamically.

No, nothing on AMR is wrong, it just doesn't apply to every single unique situation in the game. And no one said it does. The stat weights it provides are 100% accurate for determining what gear to choose like the decision the OP was facing. That is an irrefutable fact. But you are trying to debate an issue that is not up for discussion in relation to the OP's question.

Haste beats Mastery for Affliction, period, more so since the Haste buff when talking about the basics of Affliction. Your specific gear, like having SoN or not, and the amount of Haste you personally have will eventually change that, but the baseline for Affliction is to take Haste over Mastery, but don't take a bad stat like Crit over Mastery just to get Haste instead.

But, again, that is not an issue that is up for debate in relation to the topic at hand. The OP only wanted to know which of two pieces of gear is better for Affliction and Affliction only. To determine that you have to look at stat weights, and no source for stat weights will be 100% relevant in all situations but a trusted source like AMR is where you can turn to in order to figure out which piece of gear is better when you have one with good stats and one at a higher ilvl with not so good stats.

[FurtyIRL]

No, nothing on AMR is wrong, it just doesn't apply to every single unique situation in the game. And no one said it does. The stat weights it provides are 100% accurate for determining what gear to choose like the decision the OP was facing.

lol ok I'm done here!

[Teva]

Rember in 6.1 you can upgrade it to 680 aswell

[Deleted]

No, nothing on AMR is wrong, it just doesn't apply to every single unique situation in the game. And no one said it does. The stat weights it provides are 100% accurate for determining what gear to choose like the decision the OP was facing. That is an irrefutable fact. But you are trying to debate an issue that is not up for discussion in relation to the OP's question.

Haste beats Mastery for Affliction, period, more so since the Haste buff when talking about the basics of Affliction. Your specific gear, like having SoN or not, and the amount of Haste you personally have will eventually change that, but the baseline for Affliction is to take Haste over Mastery, but don't take a bad stat like Crit over Mastery just to get Haste instead.

In what filthy trash can did you dig up this information? Haste>mastery? You honestly don't have a clue... please stop posting bullshit and false info.

[SpikeySquad]

Just wondering since the haste changes have people "resimmed"? Sure it's not "real world" but it changed my numbers quite a bit (for someone with relatively low haste who has long boss fights)