Blackrock Foundry - Specc choices.

[Deleted]

Logs on Maidens are indicating that cataclysm is better.

[Deleted]

Logs on Maidens are indicating that cataclysm is better.

Logs indicate no such thing considering the top log is demonbolt and a bunch of other top 10 are.
The difference seems pretty negligible.

[Deleted]

And if you are in the ship group (like me), cataclysm is completely useless...

[axeaboutme]

Personally speaking and for those who will QQ about this may go ahead,

I understand that there is an outcry NOW that demo is so much stronger, I believe when the xpac dropped there was a lot of ppl crying about how we as a class are not as strong. So they buff the spec that requires the most work to do high dps. Either you played during the times locks were stupid op and want that back or simply you dont know how to play demo. From what it looks like , either you play destro which is basically a spam execute spec, aff which is a dot filler spec, or demo which requires the most amount of work. If you are Good at all 3 specs then there is no reason for you to not play demo, why gimp yourself on progression fights if you know 1 spec is the clear cut winner. Ofc there will be nerfs and buffs incoming but as of right now Demo is too strong for you not to play it.

[Deleted]

Gruul - Demonolgy, Demonbolt.
Oregorger - Demonolgy, Demonbolt
Beastlord - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds or a non issue no reason for Cata)
Flamebender - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Demonbolt cycle for dogs)
Hans and Franz - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Edging the belts allows you to turret)
Operator Thogar - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds are a non issue, burst for Man-At-Arms)
Blast Furnace - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds are a non issue Demonbolt for the Primal Elementalists)
Kromog - Demonolgy, Cataclysm/Demonbolt (Only fight I could justify using Cata, Cata plus 2X Chaos wave is basically instant breakout, Demonbolt still viable)
Iron Maidens - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (HoG cleave is more than enough fury for as many Demonbolt cycles as you want with or without DS)
Blackhand - Demonolgy, Demonbolt

That's my breakdown so far. Mythic shouldn't change too much.

Seems reasonable. Thanks for the heads up.
I just feel it's borring there's no swapping specs.

[Brusalk]

I've heard Cata being useful if you need more dps on the hangs vs Kromog. Can't say I've ever felt MF would be useful anywhere, it benefits so few spells.



Am I missing something with Operator? The adds seemed a complete non-issue for my raid group. Maybe our setup is just more AOE heavy than others, but I can't imagine ever wanting to go CR destro to kill such an unthreatening element and sacrifice damage on things that would matter, unless CR destro is doing far better ST dps than I thought?

It'd mostly be a matter of how much AoE your group has. There are threatening adds in the pack and killing them ASAP is important. That said if you're running more than like 3 of boomkin, enhance, CR-destro, or combat rogue in any combination it'd probably be overkill to go CR destro.

[zvvl]

I personally went Demonbolt on Operator. My group had high enough AoE DPS to make the adds a non-issue, so having high boss/big add (forget the name, Warmaster maybe?) DPS is good.

[Deleted]

It'd mostly be a matter of how much AoE your group has. There are threatening adds in the pack and killing them ASAP is important. That said if you're running more than like 3 of boomkin, enhance, CR-destro, or combat rogue in any combination it'd probably be overkill to go CR destro.

Believe we had a Boomkin and 2 rogues, which might explain things.
Initial wave of trash melts and the other 2(was it two?) beefier adds seem to go down quickly enough, never felt like enough to justify going for an AOE spec as opposed to having DB's ST damage.

Guess my group just pulled their socks up for that fight, more than can be said for some of the Kromog pulls, where I can certainly see CR destro being a thing on hands.

Personally speaking and for those who will QQ about this may go ahead,

I understand that there is an outcry NOW that demo is so much stronger, I believe when the xpac dropped there was a lot of ppl crying about how we as a class are not as strong. So they buff the spec that requires the most work to do high dps. Either you played during the times locks were stupid op and want that back or simply you dont know how to play demo. From what it looks like , either you play destro which is basically a spam execute spec, aff which is a dot filler spec, or demo which requires the most amount of work. If you are Good at all 3 specs then there is no reason for you to not play demo, why gimp yourself on progression fights if you know 1 spec is the clear cut winner. Ofc there will be nerfs and buffs incoming but as of right now Demo is too strong for you not to play it.

I'm baffled as to what that has to do with anything in this thread.

[Slicer299]

Thats just a LTP issue, demo is the most fun spec by faar and the spec with the biggest learning curve to pull the extra numbers. If you keep destro in the middle of the pack or even lower, then i love you blizz. If you are stucked with destro as a warlock then you picked the wrong class in my opinion:P time to move on!

You call it a learn to play issue, then say its "the most fun spec by faar". If someone really hates the spec, learning how to play it will never change that. I've put dozens of hours of trying Demo, in guild raids, LFR, and training dummies, yet I still can not stand playing the spec. SO because of that, it will never, ever, be the top spec for me. I'm never going to perform my best in a spec I absolutely hate to play.

Its not the difficultly of playing the spec that I dislike, its the design of the spec that I hate. I in no way mind putting in effort, but with Demo you either have to be absolutely perfect with every single cast, or your DPS will be in the toilet. I am OK with a spec like that doing the most damage for the class as it requires perfect execution, but the real problem is it does way too much damage compared to the other two specs. Let it beat Affliction or Destro by a little bit instead of 2-5K DPS or more like it does now.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Logs indicate no such thing considering the top log is demonbolt and a bunch of other top 10 are.
The difference seems pretty negligible.

OK I agree, but my thought is with no difference and me not going on boats, I'll take the mobility cataclysm provides.

[Karigg]

Logs indicate no such thing considering the top log is demonbolt and a bunch of other top 10 are.
The difference seems pretty negligible.

I think the cataclysm spec has a lot of potential for Iron Maidens. Looking at the current top 2 logs at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...&class=Warlock the top is demonbolt but on a relatively short fight, 2nd is cata.

Pretty clear that 4p bonus is required to make the cata spec shine. I'd say the dominance of demonbolt parses is because no-one has 4 piece in their heroic clears this week.

Poup's parse https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=20 has a few things that could be improved. Firstly, it's quite lazy with using cata+DS as soon as they're off cooldown. By the end of the fight, they're over 1:30 behind where they should be, so an entire extra burn is possible. Second, they casted DS>Cata>CWx3 for each burn, but I think it's more optimal to go DS>CW>Cata>CWx2 to leave a chance for a CW charge to proc during the cata cast. Could definitely squeeze out more damage.

Note it's using DS glyph and AD, but AD wasn't used at all until sub 20%. Despite that, wise choice as KJC isn't really needed, and the extra DS sub 20% made for some insane dps over the last couple of minutes.

[Deleted]

I couldn't tell if you were aware by the wording of your post, Karigg, however I think both Serica and Poup had 4 set for those parses.

Serica has 36 combined casts of HoG and CW in a 6 minute 37s encounter, which should technically allow for a maximum of 27/28 uses unless I'm being bad at maths (which I admittedly suck at). 2 charges on pull plus one for every 15s of encounter duration. Note Serica already killed the boss on Heroic for the first time a day before this parse was collected.

Poup's parse also has a higher number of HoG/CW casts than possible, and judging by armoury he obtained all of his tier pieces before killing Iron Maidens and Blackhand.

I can't link my logs, but I obtained 4 set before Heroic Iron Maidens using normal tier gloves I obtained during an achievement run, and on an 10 minute 50s encounter did 49.2k with Demonbolt, and admittedly played it quite poorly too. I had a couple of occasions where I started a Demonbolt burn only to waste my Dark Soul duration due to mechanics / movement, however that was my only attempt at the boss as I joined the raid late and it happened to be the kill attempt.

I'm interested in making Cataclysm work because to be honest I still don't really dig the Demonbolt playstyle, so will see how they compare next week ^^

[Styxxa]

Gruul - Demonolgy, Demonbolt.
Oregorger - Demonolgy, Demonbolt
Beastlord - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds or a non issue no reason for Cata)
Flamebender - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Demonbolt cycle for dogs)
Hans and Franz - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Edging the belts allows you to turret)
Operator Thogar - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds are a non issue, burst for Man-At-Arms)
Blast Furnace - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (Adds are a non issue Demonbolt for the Primal Elementalists)
Kromog - Demonolgy, Cataclysm/Demonbolt (Only fight I could justify using Cata, Cata plus 2X Chaos wave is basically instant breakout, Demonbolt still viable)
Iron Maidens - Demonolgy, Demonbolt (HoG cleave is more than enough fury for as many Demonbolt cycles as you want with or without DS)
Blackhand - Demonolgy, Demonbolt

This is 100% how I see it. I think a lot of these fights are disguised as add fights (I'll use Thogar as an example) when really they're high priority target fights. Demonbolt will add a lot more value to your raid under those circumstances. Cataclysm looks great on Recount but is fairly meaningless when other classes can do as good a job to burst those adds down without losing too much on the high priority targets (in my group, anyway). Shame it takes a few more clicks through your logs to discover you used the adds to build resources which were then spent to obliterate the high priority target, but hey. With Demonbolt you should be able to do the most damage on any high priority target if you're doing it right. Maybe in Mythic it will take a bit more umph to clear the adds and I'll have to re-think Cataclysm (though it does look really fucking fun and tempting).

[Cyberthug32]

I did Heroic Maidens tonight and killed it as Demonbolt. Seems ideal, especially for burning down turrets, make it a priority to have your DB ready for the first one at least. Even though you might get screwed like myself and have to move and run around, pushing 40k still on the fight at 680 item level and no set bonus IMO is good. You're going to see once people get set bonuses it'll start jumping up there and not to mention "boss tuning" they will be doing.

Someone posted early, single target on a lot of fights are more important since damage to the boss is what will get you the kills. I can see however, Cata working out with all three bosses up on Maidens too.

[Karigg]

I couldn't tell if you were aware by the wording of your post, Karigg, however I think both Serica and Poup had 4 set for those parses.

Serica has 36 combined casts of HoG and CW in a 6 minute 37s encounter, which should technically allow for a maximum of 27/28 uses unless I'm being bad at maths (which I admittedly suck at). 2 charges on pull plus one for every 15s of encounter duration. Note Serica already killed the boss on Heroic for the first time a day before this parse was collected.

Poup's parse also has a higher number of HoG/CW casts than possible, and judging by armoury he obtained all of his tier pieces before killing Iron Maidens and Blackhand.

I can't link my logs, but I obtained 4 set before Heroic Iron Maidens using normal tier gloves I obtained during an achievement run, and on an 10 minute 50s encounter did 49.2k with Demonbolt, and admittedly played it quite poorly too. I had a couple of occasions where I started a Demonbolt burn only to waste my Dark Soul duration due to mechanics / movement, however that was my only attempt at the boss as I joined the raid late and it happened to be the kill attempt.

I'm interested in making Cataclysm work because to be honest I still don't really dig the Demonbolt playstyle, so will see how they compare next week ^^

Guildie pulled 55k on a normal clear with cata/CW with 4p over 6:50. On the shorter fight, you've got 3 targets for most of the time, so it's a little biased, but it looks like the numbers are there. Sepelio from One Shot managed a similar number on a normal kill, same spec. Just speccing demonbolt and building to 960 fury to cast 2 chaos waves at the end of dark soul is probably equally strong. Or 3xDB + 3xCW? That could be an interesting combo.

Mythic strats may differ, and when there aren't 3 targets stacked for the whole fight, demonbolt might be better. Cata spec is probably higher dps sub 20% (where it counts) with the extra charge of dark soul.

[goostoff]

So what i've learned is that the few people that "mastered" demo are calling the demo haters bad because demo requires 1-2 more buttons. I'd say demo on a scale of 1-10 in difficulty is a 3 and destro/affliction are a 2. I got gladiator when wow required 30 + macros for locks and haven't played in 4-5 years. Demo is by far to ME the most boring/annoying spec to learn. Sure being #1 in dps every fight would be nice but I don't have it in me to learn something I don't enjoy playing. For destro/affliction I am still making top 50 almost every fight with 10-15 ilvl lower than logs. Demo's learning curve is just so weird and this game is so boring for me now that spending 1-2 weeks to find the muscle memory for where to put keys wouldn't be worth it. I just never played demo in the past and after quitting for this many years my brain only remembers the few destro/affliction binds and where they're supposed to be on my keyboard. I hate all you demo lovers because I want to be like you. I love you as well.