1. #1

    Question Enhanc Shamans, what are your problems?

    Bit of a background info, I am a monk tank raiding mythic HM, my friend is a warlock raiding with me. We decided its time to level up some alts, he chose an arms warrior mostly because they are very strong right now. I have been looking on warcraft logs right now on a spec that can go head to head with a warrior, we enjoy competing with each other privately. Thats mostly why were making the dps alts. I see on warcraft logs that enhanc is the only spec strong enough to compete with an arms warrior, when I filter for damage on all bosses combined, mythic progress, and 90th percentile. Pretty much aggregates the data from the top guilds doing mythic HM.

    Yet looking at this forum I see a lot of shamans complaining, and requesting buffs. So I am skeptical. A lot of people are saying they will re-roll something other than a shaman and what not. So why is that? why are people saying shamans are weak right now? Our enhanc shaman tops the charts on most of the fights. Is it because of the coming nerfs? I understand that data alone isnt indicative so I was hoping for a bit of honest feedback from actual raiding shamans who may be struggling. Should i roll an enhanc shaman or chose a different class? I used to play shaman in MOP so I know how bad it gets when blizz forgets about shamans, i would really hope to avoid investing time leveling my shaman from 90 to not feel like I can compete. Dont want to get stuck there again.

    So in conclusion, would an enhanc shaman compete with an arms warrior in specific for current content and more importantly in the coming raid(Black foundry)?, and if a shaman isnt the class im looking for which class should i go for? (Other than mage or warlock)

    Thanks in advance for any honest response.

    PS: I also noticed shamans are almost top on most fights, including kargath and koragh, yet they are doing very badly on butcher. Why is that? is the add phase doing that much of a difference? or are other classes losing to much dps due to movement?

  2. #2
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    Play a retribution paladin.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Nurabashi's Avatar
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    Our AoE is insane, so that's why we top Kargath and Koragh.

    I ain't jumping ship for Blackrock Foundry, people like to complain, hoping to get some sort of response.
    Currently Procrastinating

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aperfectmonster View Post
    Why is that? is the add phase doing that much of a difference?
    This. Take a closer look at some random log of a good enh shaman (kargath, tectus, koragh or imperator). You will notice that like 30-50% of his total dmg comes from fire nova. (Which is only used during those short add phases)

  5. #5
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    The spec is poorly designed. We have one spell that deals insane AoE dmg (Fire Nova) and every other spell deals shit damage.
    So we basically exists to spam fire nova, that's it. I don't think any class-spec combination in the history of WoW has been more poorly designed than the current enhancement shaman design, it's truly awful. They need to nerf fire nova and bring up all the other spells to even it out.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aperfectmonster View Post
    Bit of a background info, I am a monk tank raiding mythic HM, my friend is a warlock raiding with me. We decided its time to level up some alts, he chose an arms warrior mostly because they are very strong right now. I have been looking on warcraft logs right now on a spec that can go head to head with a warrior, we enjoy competing with each other privately. Thats mostly why were making the dps alts. I see on warcraft logs that enhanc is the only spec strong enough to compete with an arms warrior, when I filter for damage on all bosses combined, mythic progress, and 90th percentile. Pretty much aggregates the data from the top guilds doing mythic HM.

    Yet looking at this forum I see a lot of shamans complaining, and requesting buffs. So I am skeptical. A lot of people are saying they will re-roll something other than a shaman and what not. So why is that? why are people saying shamans are weak right now? Our enhanc shaman tops the charts on most of the fights. Is it because of the coming nerfs? I understand that data alone isnt indicative so I was hoping for a bit of honest feedback from actual raiding shamans who may be struggling. Should i roll an enhanc shaman or chose a different class? I used to play shaman in MOP so I know how bad it gets when blizz forgets about shamans, i would really hope to avoid investing time leveling my shaman from 90 to not feel like I can compete. Dont want to get stuck there again.

    So in conclusion, would an enhanc shaman compete with an arms warrior in specific for current content and more importantly in the coming raid(Black foundry)?, and if a shaman isnt the class im looking for which class should i go for? (Other than mage or warlock)

    Thanks in advance for any honest response.

    PS: I also noticed shamans are almost top on most fights, including kargath and koragh, yet they are doing very badly on butcher. Why is that? is the add phase doing that much of a difference? or are other classes losing to much dps due to movement?
    Filtering by aggeregate on Warcraftlogs doesn't really provide the whole picture for any class, and is definitely a bad way of judging classes. Effectively, the class that is highest AoE will always come out on top, as it's averaging DPS on AoE fights (in which specialists will do extremely high DPS compared to non specialist classes, often in the range of 100-150% higher) with Single target (in which specialists will be 10-20%~ above maximum) which dilutes single target classes much more than you'd expect.

    Essentially, at the moment Enhancement will beat a warrior pretty damn convincingly on mass AoE, but on 2-3 target cleave & single target, the warrior will likely do more. Our damage is entirely frontloaded into Fire Nova currently and any fight that has opportunity for us to use it skyrockets our damage, once it's not useable (a la butcher) we are punished quite badly. We're very much propped up by long cooldowns on single target, so you'll see yourself slowly falling down the meters as the fight goes on.

    If your choice is entirely about competition with your friend on a warrior, if I were to pick a class that could currently go toe to toe, I would definitely consider Rogue, as recent combat buffs puts their AoE absurdly high, & their single target as Sub is absolutely fantastic.

  7. #7
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Other than having crap lvl 100 talents, mobility in pvp.

  8. #8
    From a PvE perspective,

    The entirety of our single target damage is reliant on massive burst in the first minute, because after that first minute our DPS drops very hard. Our damage sources are very thinly spread around (Fire Nova aside, but that's another story) and a lot of damage is built in to our pets--Feral Spirit and Fire Elemental Totem, a 2-minute and 5-minute CD respectively. Our cooldown use is 100% centered around buffing these temporary pets because the Shaman itself is comparatively weaker than its CDs. We cannot even be relied on to burst on demand as popping out combined 2-minute, 3-minute, and 5-minute (2.5m glyphed but value limited by encounter duration) CDs together is a once-per-fight thing.

    Fire Nova is apparently our bread and butter, however it is only really useful on 4+ adds, and doesn't become truly great until 6+ adds. This means that the value of Enhancement compared other classes is nonexistent until a fight comes along with exactly these scenarios. The adds must have long enough uptime for the ramp-up (one Flame Shock, one Lava Lash), the adds must then survive long enough for us to even get more than a single Nova off, and the adds must be tightly stacked for Novas to hit all targets and do their job.

    So Blizzard has decided we are going to be great AoEers, but only under the exact conditions specified above. This means that our value to a raid composition is dependent on Blizzard's willingness to design raid content in which we become viable. And even then we may be seen as a bother. No one wants to be the dead weight in the single target DPS check bosses. Meanwhile some guilds take us just to cheese the AoE portion of fights, which is shitty. I want to be taken because I can be valuable to every fight, not because I'm a "we-can-deal-with-it-until-the-fights-where-we-need-him" class.

  9. #9
    Pretty much what Torethyr posted.

    What worries me is that AoE niche is going to be the only reason to bring an Enh shaman. We get our "few minutes of fame" when our CDs are used, but as he said you start seeing your DPS drop quickly when your CDs are done.

    I also feel design wise has been constant back and forth, like someone who can't make up their mind...It happened in the beta with multiple shaman abilities, and it was even more apparent with the whole recent maelstrom changes.

    At the end of the day though unless you're in the "hardcore" scene play what you enjoy. I enjoy Shaman, not just Enhancement.
    "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Going into Blackrock one of my major concerns for an Enhance Shaman is our utter failure at low target cleave. 2-3 Target cleave for us is pretty bad. A lot of fights in BRF are low target cleave fights where the adds can be spread. Its going to be a train wreck.

    I kick up a huge stink when Im not assigned to add duty on fights because that is our bread and butter and Im not being used for it.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Did....did they just buff Primal Strike?

    You guys can go home now, Primal Strike has no CD!
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Karrotlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Help ol Gil Out View Post
    Did....did they just buff Primal Strike?

    You guys can go home now, Primal Strike has no CD!
    Those have to be tooltip errors. Would they really just remove the CDs for all major Shaman spells? o_o

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Help ol Gil Out View Post
    Did....did they just buff Primal Strike?

    You guys can go home now, Primal Strike has no CD!
    Enhance fixed
    /thread
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  14. #14
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    I seriously dont know why any enhancer should complain. Single dps is ok, AOE is insane.
    Me as a feral raiding almost casually (mythic 5/7) am not in the TOP dps even for single target anymore. Not to mention that most of the fights involve cleave/aoe. And our aoe is one if not THE worst right now.

    People need to realize that a game where EVERY class is capable of doing EVERYTHING is freaking BORING. But imho they should be at least good in ONE thing. For Enhancers thats the insane and incredibly easy to play aoe dps...whats wrong about that?

  15. #15
    Just look at Imperator heroic, its 9 min of single target fight (assuming you do not get assigned to kill interface adds) and then in last face with 3 rounds of adds your main sorce of dmg gona be fire nova, its just retarded.

  16. #16
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    I have no problems that make me "hate" Enhancement.

    I wouldn't mind a slight nerf to Fire Nova for a buff to single target/cleave, but I can also live without such a change.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by -NeuroN- View Post
    Just look at Imperator heroic, its 9 min of single target fight (assuming you do not get assigned to kill interface adds) and then in last face with 3 rounds of adds your main sorce of dmg gona be fire nova, its just retarded.
    ok, then nerf fire nova and you will be fine.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einst3in View Post
    ok, then nerf fire nova and you will be fine.
    I don't think you'll find to many people fighting to keep nova in its current state. It's totally niche for 2 fights and won't have any real usage in it's intended niche in BRF.

    I fully support a fire nova nerf if that means we can be better at single target outside of low duration burst.

    I hate nova. I hate looking at my logs and seeing 30 seconds of nova is more important than 9 minutes of dpsing my arse off. I hate being at the mercy of my raid leader on fights where I can be used to my full potential to only then cop the remarks from warriors and rogues in my group about how they want to do adds.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Einst3in View Post
    I seriously dont know why any enhancer should complain. Single dps is ok, AOE is insane.
    Me as a feral raiding almost casually (mythic 5/7) am not in the TOP dps even for single target anymore. Not to mention that most of the fights involve cleave/aoe. And our aoe is one if not THE worst right now.

    People need to realize that a game where EVERY class is capable of doing EVERYTHING is freaking BORING. But imho they should be at least good in ONE thing. For Enhancers thats the insane and incredibly easy to play aoe dps...whats wrong about that?
    By god stop calling them enhancers lol. That's not even a word. You enhance. The verb is to enhance. Enh shamans. It's one more letter.

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