Would you enjoy a world first race with normalized ilvl?

[Spotnick]

So, if Blizzard did a tournament system with normalized gear for everybody in addition to the current system, would you enjoy that?

Just like the arena tournament thing. You zone in raid, you have gear vendors, equip what you need and go for it, everybody is on par, only skills matter at that point.

Would that even work?

[thewallofsleep]

Obtaining and optimizing gear is one of the most important parts of the raiding experience. Removing that wouldn't be all that interesting. It works in PvP because every match is different. No two players are alike. Everything is entirely skill and reflex based and people need to make split second decisions based on the actions of their opponents, not based on the set patterns of a computer controlled boss. In raids, you have your team fighting programmed NPC's which do specific things under specific conditions. Usually you can set your clock by it. I have zero interest in "World First" raid races or any ESports for that matter, but I don't see what function normalizing gear would serve. Not that watching other people fight computer controlled bad guys for electronic bragging rights is that interesting anyway.

[TheWindWalker]

Absolutely. Not necessarily "World's First" as in the first people to beat Mythic but rather having a special version of Mythic that opens a month later in which everyone who enters the raid is set a certain ilvl with no enchants, sockets, food or flask buffs working. And prestige (and FoS) is based on whoever can beat that first. It would be pretty amazing.

[Raeln]

Obtaining and optimizing gear is one of the most important parts of the raiding experience. Removing that wouldn't be all that interesting. It works in PvP because every match is different. No two players are alike. In raids, you have your team fighting programmed NPC's which do specific things under specific conditions. Usually you can set your clock by it. I have zero interest in "World First" raid races or any ESports for that matter, but I don't see what function normalizing gear would serve.

It's no surprise that the hyperinflated gear is required to prop up raiding. Without it, few would be interested in it all.

It's already been proven that when "almost as good" gear is available by other means outside of raiding, people abandon raiding in droves.

I don't expect that Blizzard will ever try a normalized raid experience because it would just confirm what some have posted since 2005.

[Lessthanzer0]

Only reason why I wouldn't be totally against it is because I'm sick of mythic warforged gear being sold on the bmah before the raid even opens. The logic behind it is just nonexistent.

[Xargoth6634]

I guess it'd be cool, it would definitely solve any petty "x killed y first because gear" arguments.

It wouldn't make me follow it any more than I do now, which is practically none other than checking the front page of mmo-champ once a day during progression periods.

[Lesane]

So, if Blizzard did a tournament system with normalized gear for everybody in addition to the current system, would you enjoy that?

Just like the arena tournament thing. You zone in raid, you have gear vendors, equip what you need and go for it, everybody is on par, only skills matter at that point.

Would that even work?

No. Blizzard shouldn't support WF races in any form or way other than banning exploiters.

[Korgoth]

The only support for WF races that Blizzard should do imo is banning world first contending guilds from PTR.

[Deleted]

The only support for WF races that Blizzard should do imo is banning world first contending guilds from PTR.

I agree, competition should be started without Prior knowledge of the Encounter as this can be considered part of the challenge too, just the same as gearing up as fast as possible.

[Deleted]

totally agreed.. i mean seriously blizzard have 2-3-4 guilds testing raids even in beta and then every boss becomes available on PTR just for "feedback"...i doubt we can still talk for WF races..

Nowdays its not a WF race for the boss but a WF race for the best ilvl guild...blizz should consider that before letting everyone testing the future content.

[TheWindWalker]

It's already been proven that when "almost as good" gear is available by other means outside of raiding, people abandon raiding in droves.

Then people haven't been raiding as much since...Wrath, I guess? Seriously though, where'd you get that idea? The last time a raid tier didn't have "almost as good gear" was SoO and they simply introduced Flex to fill in.

[Baium]

The only support for WF races that Blizzard should do imo is banning world first contending guilds from PTR.

When the PTR didn't allow testing of raids before they went live, there were more bugs that either held back progression, or trivialized or just broke the encounter.
Preventing currently contending world first guilds from doing the PTR is a disservice to us (the non World First players), and would put the World First guilds at a significant disadvantage compared to guilds who you would normally not see as contenders for "world first."

[Raeln]

Then people haven't been raiding as much since...Wrath, I guess? Seriously though, where'd you get that idea? The last time a raid tier didn't have "almost as good gear" was SoO and they simply introduced Flex to fill in.

Go look at the charts toward the end of MoP.

A little over half of the sampled accounts did LFR, then it dropped quickly. Flex helped out but it still isn't some incredible amount of the playerbase.

[Spotnick]

but I don't see what function normalizing gear would serve.

Kill completely the gear funneling/buying/etc crap that is going on right now in the raiding scene for better ranking.

I am pretty sure nobody enjoys it, but do it anyways because everybody else does it.

[Otimus]

Take this idea, and change it into Challenge Mode Raids, and have that be the battle for world firsts. That makes more sense. Make it functional basically the same as challenge mode dungeons. Make it, at a base level, be similar to Mythic. This is basically what the "best of the best" raiding or whatever should be, really, if people really want to be competitive about it.

Even further, make it disable sockets, so people can't game the system that way. All that sort of thing. Would be interesting.

[Adramelch]

No gear means guilds have an endless (relatively speaking) pool of different classes and specs which takes away some of the strategic options that the WF guilds go with.

[zephid]

I agree, competition should be started without Prior knowledge of the Encounter as this can be considered part of the challenge too, just the same as gearing up as fast as possible.

The problem you'll run into if you don't do PTR testing is really buggy encounters. Everyone who were a raider back in vanilla remembers how buggy BWL was when it was released because they never tested in on the PTR.

So the only way for Blizzard to create a relatively bug-free encounter is to test it on the ptr.

[Leih]

I would like to see some kind of Challenge Mode raiding - not instead of Mythic, absolutely not - but as an extra addition. Maybe some super awesome mount or mog if you manage to complete the Challenge Mode version of the raid while the expansion is current. It would simply be the Mythic version of the raid but with all gear normalised to a set, challenging ilvl and things like sockets and set bonuses disabled. Would be kind of awesome as an extra challenge for those who finished Mythic.

It could record your time afterwards, so the best of the best could compete for speed runs as well, with a leaderboard.

[Deleted]

Leave the world first to the raiders. Blizzard should only step in when exploits are being used.

If people really want to push for WF then optimising and properly gearing players is part of the process.

[Deleted]

Not a bad idea really, I'd like to see old raids revamped into a "challenge tier", not all of them I don't think they all work well for the concept but some would be easily converted into such an idea. Make them all scale to a set ilvl and 10man, it would take some work but they could probably revamp one old tier into a challenge every quarter year, as it requires no art assets be changed just needs tuning for new talents/changes and 100.