So the Fun Content & Endgame IS, In Fact, at GW2's Level Cap... Interesting Hypocrisy

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I was told a while back that levelcap isn't where the endgame is... that you could run any dungeon, any episode, etc, at any level. That the fun traits didn't require grinding up to cap, etc...

Well, after having paid an extensive sojourn to the wiki, it appears that it IS, in fact, at cap. The story episodes used to be able to be done at any level, where you'd be scaled up or down, and supposedly even 10 could do one. Now it's 80 only content. Those festivals and events such as the adventure puzzle-platformer thingy? Gotta be 80. And those fun traits that make your class fun? Gotta get to 30 first, yada yada yada.

Unless I'm missing something, Arenanet has apparently kept saying that they don't want leveling to be the endgame, but apparently if you want to see the story or do those fun events, you have to be leveling the crap out of the game to see it...

[Jinxz]

wut???

/10 chars

[Valeron]

only thing you have to be level 80 for is the season 2 living story

the festivals can be done at any level

[Val the Moofia Boss]

the festivals can be done at any level

Thanks for the correction; perhaps I'm reading too much into this.

But why did they change to LS from being done at any level to 80 only?

[Valeron]

Thanks for the correction; perhaps I'm reading too much into this.

But why did they change to LS from being done at any level to 80 only?

don't know. perhaps they felt constrained by making it scale due to it being in new areas (e.g. most of the season 2 LS is in the new areas which are level 80 appropriate (you can go to those earlier but you'll have a hard time of it)). Anyway, I wouldn't sweat it since you have really the best of what the game offers before that anyway.

now keep in mind, there is still some progression to the game (traits are one example). I mean it does have a lot of free roaming to the game but it isn't a sandbox, it is essentially a themepark with more freedom.

[Smaointe]

You totally misunderstood the whole point.

In GW2 there were always lvl requirements... for example each personal story chapter had their own lvl (works tad different now), each dungeon have minimum lvl, each zone... etc.
What's different here than in all (or almost all) other MMO's is fact, that you'll never outlvl any content you'll be always scaled down and everything will be same challenging as it was at the beginning. Thus making every part of the game the end game content

[kendro1200]

Season 2 of the Living World can be done at any time once you've unlocked the episodes, but yes they are one of the very few things that you must be 80 to do. Season 2 of the Living World was made specifically for players at 80 because players at 80 since launch needed something new to chew on, in no shape or form is that hypocrisy. Season 2 of the Living World is very similar in production quality to the Personal Story, which is something you get to work on all of the way up to level 80.
There are some things in GW2 that have level caps to when you can access the content, just like nearly any other rpg with a level system (rpgs need to have some form of character progression, so there are things that are always gated behind some kind of requirement). The dungeons have minimum levels you have to be in order to go in, and the game down levels you if you've out-leveled it.
I do have to say, if you think the Living World is the only thing you're ever going to enjoy out of GW2, then you probably will want to plainly not play it. The story updates are irregular, and there is an expectation that a season 3 will happen, but it has never been stated if it actually will happen.
No one, not even I, have said you can do everything under the level cap. We've said you can do similar content that is present at the level cap under the level cap, hence why the leveling up experience is very enjoyable and there is no reason to rush it. Like imagine if Vanilla WoW was released with all of the content from 2004 to 2014, back in 2004. Then while leveling up there would have been raiding content prior to reaching the level cap, and so people could say that you could do a lot of the content of WoW without hitting the level cap. There'd still be stuff at the level cap exclusive to it, and not having anything at a level cap to do is a very stupid move for any modern rpg, but the different kinds of content would not be exclusive to the level cap in that imaginary case. The same thing is true with GW2. Nearly everything in GW2 has some very close analog below the level cap. All of the holiday events level you up, just like in WvW it levels you up to 80, if you are under the cap that doesn't mean you can't participate. For instance, the Halloween event has a pve map that is great for zerging and is incredible for farming xp, lot of people level alts through it.

The September Feature Pack did screw a lot of stuff up, and gated a lot of content previously available at low levels to much higher levels, but there have been hints that in HoT at least some of those mistakes are going to be reverted.

[Notshauna]

Yeah it's a misunderstanding, the content at end game really isn't much different than the content at, say, level 2, it's just that as you progress through the game you unlock more of it. A level 2 character has 5 viable zones whereas a level 15 character has 9 and so forth. And while the scaling down is far from perfect, it's still vastly superior to WoW's approach of everything beyond max level content becomes useless.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Let's be honest here.
The game isn't bad, but pretty much everything that was said about it early was just a direct counter to something people thought WoW and other MMOs was doing wrong.
Expect nothing different from this one, or any other, no matter what statements about the game are made.
There is nothing overly innovative or crazy going on here.

[Gray_Matter]

I think the level 80 requirement had to do with the new zones more than anything else. If they have to make the LS stuff suitable for a level 15 then the zones need to be level 15 and they need to be connected to low level zones. While level scaling works, it's really difficult to find a balance between trivializing content for the high level chars and having them play right for the lower level chars. GW2 sorely needs more high level zones. Either that or they just need to get rid of the levels all together.

[Fencers]

I was told a while back that levelcap isn't where the endgame is... that you could run any dungeon, any episode, etc, at any level. That the fun traits didn't require grinding up to cap, etc...

There is no endgame at level in any of the Guild Wars games. An Endgame is a penultimate state where play options are narrowed to the completion of the game goals. Closest would be level 79 in Guild Wars 2- like anything you do at level 79.

When a player reaches 80 in Guild Wars 2 the game becomes more expansive and inclusive.

Also the restrictions you mention are poorly defined.

What is a "fun" event; is there a quantitative value to the "fun" of a level 62 event relative to a level 80 event?

Is there a metric stating that a story episode for level 80s is more "fun" than one for level 10s?

Where is the "fun" descriptor for traits located?

I am certain no material by Arena.net states a particular level of content is more "fun" than another. Thus the distinction only exists in one's mind by a set of personal criteria irrelevant to anyone outside of one's imagination.

This is no hypocrisy. It is poor understanding of video games and their design. And a misuse of language & terminology too.

[thewallofsleep]

Fencers: Tellin' it like it is since 2011

[Baconeggcheese]

There's not really an "endgame" in gw2, when I hit level cap I looked around for things to do... and it was to continue doing what I was already doing that got me to cap for the most part.

It's an amazing game for the mindset I imagine the typical wow casual has, its a horrible game for the mindset a hardcore raider has.

[Deleted]

There's not really an "endgame" in gw2, when I hit level cap I looked around for things to do... and it was to continue doing what I was already doing that got me to cap for the most part.

It's an amazing game for the mindset I imagine the typical wow casual has, its a horrible game for the mindset a hardcore raider has.

"In WoW you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear you can use, in GW2 you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear that you can use." - one of my old guildmates.

[Edge-]

"In WoW you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear you can use, in GW2 you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear that you can use." - one of my old guildmates.

This is true, but it's ignoring the whole context of how one goes about doing it.

In WoW, you take part in an activity that up until max level isn't present in the leveling experience, raiding. It's the primary method of character progression at max level (and chain running dungeons) and stands in stark difference to the activities one does while leveling (questing, exploring etc.)

In GW2, the activities one does at level 10 are largely the same as the activities one does at 80. Story-related questing (personal story vs. living story), exploration and hearts, dynamic events, etc. There's no real difference in playstyles.

Not to mention that that quote ignores the fact that one can quite literally "cap out" on gear in GW2 due to the lack of linear progression. One can only "cap out" during a given expansion in WoW, as each patch brings a new set of gear to "kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear you can use". Your friend literally boiled down a MMO to its most base roots.

So while he's correct, that's like saying that formula 1 racing and a weekend drive are the same because "You get in the car, drive around for a while, may have to fill up on gas, and then get out and go home." It's an accurate statement, but it's one that would get you strange looks from anyone who knows what a car is and what formula 1 racing is.

[worprz]

At level 30 you can do the first dungeon and it's explorable mode is at level 35. I think there is one dungeon that you have to be level 80 to do.

At level 2 you can start pvp and do just as well as a level 80 (gear doesn't matter in pvp). You can also start WvW at level 2 (they may have changed this), but I've never tried it at a low level. I know gear matters more in WvW than it does in pvp, but I couldn't tell you how difficult it would be at a low level (you are boosted to 80). Most of the time in WvW you are in a large group though.

[Deleted]

This is true, but it's ignoring the whole context of how one goes about doing it. - snip

I know it is a very non descriptive quote, and it was said largely as a provocative notion towards WoW veterans that were accustomed to a very specific way of end game. It is the root of the MMORPG genre, to kill monsters to further oneself in the gear and level department, and the jab is at the idea that the progress of gaining it was different, not nonexistent.

[Baconeggcheese]

"In WoW you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear you can use, in GW2 you kill big monsters with people and mechanics and sometimes receive gear that you can use." - one of my old guildmates.

I don't get what points being made here, or why its relevant to what I said.