I really hope there isn't an "Imperator" fight in BRF

[theyanger]

My problem with imperator is that, although the phases are different, they are too similar which makes it not feel like a 5+ phase encounter.
Blackhand is legitimately changing every time, I don't think people will mind as much. Phases that are drastically different have never bothered me at all (And yeah, they ARE different on margok, but the fact that they're the same mechanics twisted in different ways I think still leads people to 'feel' like they're still the same mechanics).

Name 3 end bosses since t10 that were not 10 min long. (Without nerfs /out gearing)

All 3 end bosses in T11 were pretty short :3 (10 minutes is a short cutoff though. LOTS of fights are 10 minutes. these end bosses usually push closer to 15).

I don't think they're disagreeing that end bosses are often long, I think they are saying that they don't feel Imperator counts as an "end boss" for this tier.

Very true. It's unusual as heck to have a boss this long as basically the 7th boss in a 17 boss tier. Will of the Emperor was vastly shorter (although still on the long side compared to the rest of the zone). as was Shek'zeer

[Solial]

Didn't do Kil'jaden when current, but it was a long fight.
Malygos 10 minutes. Achievement to kill under 6
Yogg Been to long for an exact time. 7 minute achievment
Anub'Arak on heroic 25 you went through the kiting phase twice followed by 30% where he heals a good bit
Lich King, hit the 15 minute enrage on 25 heroic a few times when current
Nef and Al'akir were both decently long. Sinestra didnt feel very long from memory. Can't remember most of this tier.
Rag heroic was a long fight.
Madness was a long fight. Was it 15 minutes? I know we hit enrage on it before it was nerfed.
Twin Emps, Empress, Sha all decenlty long fights. Some guilds taking over 20 minutes for Sha on 25 heroic.
Lei'Shen a long fight on heroic.
Garrosh was 15+ minutes on heroic for first kills.
Imperator ~15 mins. Blackhand will probably be a 15+ as well.

[calanos]

There is a big difference between "long fights" and "long fights that don't get hard until 8 minutes in."

Long, varied fights are fine by me, but long fights that are 5-7+ min snoozefests followed by a hard part, or have a specific very hard few seconds sandwiched between long bouts of boring that I can't stand.

Imp was annoying for PUGs because it was long, didn't get hard until the end, AND had 2-3 insta-gib mechanics that weren't hard but people learning the fight could screw the raid with.

The worst example of a long "didnt get hard till late" fight would be Heroic Spine of Deathwing, and a good example of just a good, long fight would be Ragnaros or the Emperor guy in Throne of Thunder to me.

[theyanger]

Didn't do Kil'jaden when current, but it was a long fight.
Malygos 10 minutes. Achievement to kill under 6
Yogg Been to long for an exact time. 7 minute achievment
Anub'Arak on heroic 25 you went through the kiting phase twice followed by 30% where he heals a good bit
Lich King, hit the 15 minute enrage on 25 heroic a few times when current
Nef and Al'akir were both decently long. Sinestra didnt feel very long from memory. Can't remember most of this tier.
Rag heroic was a long fight.
Madness was a long fight. Was it 15 minutes? I know we hit enrage on it before it was nerfed.
Twin Emps, Empress, Sha all decenlty long fights. Some guilds taking over 20 minutes for Sha on 25 heroic.
Lei'Shen a long fight on heroic.
Garrosh was 15+ minutes on heroic for first kills.
Imperator ~15 mins. Blackhand will probably be a 15+ as well.

Achievements don't help. Yogg was a ~15 minute fight (stars 0 light video is like 16 and change).
Might as well take it all the way back:
Rag - two phases, short fight (6-8 minutes after they fixed the burn strat).
Nefarian - two phases, average fight (10 minutes ish? Chromaggus was longer).
C'thun - two phases, long (13-15 minutes for early kills).
Kel'thuzad - three phases sort of, 15 minute fight
Vashj - around 10 minutes iirc
Kael'thas - 10-15 minutes, bunch of phases (5 offhand)
Illidan - 15 minutes. 4-5 phases depending on how you look at it.
Kil'jaeden - just over 10 minutes. like 3 phases.
Naxx/Malygos/Sarth - all short. Let's say 10 minutes for Malygos (6 minute achieve was legit at that time). Kel'thuzad I'm loathe to count since he existed before.
Yogg - 15 minutes. 3 phases
Anub'arak - Under 10 minutes. 3 phases
Lich King - 15 minutes. lots of phases.
Sinestra, Nefarian, Al'akir - all sub 10 minutes. all with 3 phases too.
Ragnaros - bit over 15 minutes. 5 phases (counting transitions as phases here)
Madness - close to 15 minutes. 2 phases though the platforms dying off make it more of a gradient
Sha of Fear - 15-20 minutes 2 phases, with the second one being drawn out as hell.
Lei Shen - 4 phases, closer to 10 minutes than 15.
Garrosh - 4 phases, 2 transitions, 15 minutes.

Point being, it's not just a recent development. 10-15 minutes is the norm for end bosses. 15 being more common than 10. Shorter than 10 is a rarity.

There is a big difference between "long fights" and "long fights that don't get hard until 8 minutes in."

Long, varied fights are fine by me, but long fights that are 5-7+ min snoozefests followed by a hard part, or have a specific very hard few seconds sandwiched between long bouts of boring that I can't stand.

Imp was annoying for PUGs because it was long, didn't get hard until the end, AND had 2-3 insta-gib mechanics that weren't hard but people learning the fight could screw the raid with.

The worst example of a long "didnt get hard till late" fight would be Heroic Spine of Deathwing, and a good example of just a good, long fight would be Ragnaros or the Emperor guy in Throne of Thunder to me.

I think spine was only snoozefest easy for the first plate. It's definitely not a great fight and it ramped up a lot by the end, but it wasn't just 'do nothing' since the hard part was really just meeting the dps requirements each time. Sha of Fear stands out to me most as 'long for no reason'. The last phase didn't get remotely challenging until you had like 7 adds out at a time at least. They could have cut his HP by a third and made the phase start with 4 adds or something instead of building from 1. It would have immensely cut back on how trashy that fight was. I enjoyed the actual mechanics but they didn't matter for like this really long 7 minute stretch smack dab in the middle of the fight. That's too far.

Conversely making this list, I agree with Rag and Lei Shen - I always liked Rag despite it being long, but I would've guessed Lei Shen was 15 minutes as well cause it just felt so intense the whole time, but he's actually pretty short. I much prefer that.

[Einzweidrei]

speak for yourself

long fights are the most epic ones and they're the ones where the wheat gets separated from the chaff

As bored as I get with the early phases of the fight that almost never go wrong... I agree that a fight like this is the most epic to finish successfully.

[Ezekiah]

Imperator is a 4 minute fight with a 10 minute qualifier.

Except the last 4 minutes are far from the hardest of the fight. (assuming you meant Cho'gall with this)

[Kantalope]

There is a big difference between "long fights" and "long fights that don't get hard until 8 minutes in."

This. It's silly have a fight be easy for 8 minutes, and then get hard. The first 8 minutes of Imperator are quite easy, but when trying to progress, each pull takes a minimum of 8 minutes before you can attempt the difficult portions of the fight, greatly inflating the time it takes to down the boss.

[Deleted]

I like the fights when there's sometimes a short time to chill and do nothing before some hard phase starts. The feeling like on kael, after u done a phase and waiting for next to begin.. everyone is kinda on alert the whole time and knows that soon something diff starts again.

[Solial]

I don't know if I would call any phase of heroic imperator hard.
P3 on mythic is probably the hardest and P1 the easiest.
P1 Mythic uses P2/4 heroic abilties.
P3 Mythic uses P3/4 heroic abilities.
The small adds hitting for ~70k each with triple aoe pulsing force novas and double "short range" branded makes the phase hard (Not to mention 1/2 the room being mines).

As shown in P1 of mythic, the P4 heroic abilities even combined with P2 heroic abilities really aren't that bad. It might be a long fight, but P4 really isn't very hard. I would relate that more to people soaking up a lot of healer mana in P3 and the intermission while not killing the 2nd warmage due to low dps and lack of interrupts. I feel like that just makes the fight harder than it should be. We killed Cho'gall the 2nd time we actually lasted into P4 long enough to get the first clone to spawn (We wiped right as he spawned a few times, not long enough to consider finishing P3).

[Xenryusho]

I agree with Tziva, imperator was only a problem because the difficulty is all at the backend of the fight AND the fight was wayyy too long. I don't mind it being long just so long as the last 25% isn't a huge spike in difficulty from the rest. The issue with imperator was that the rest of the fight was very boring and repetitive. After 10 minutes you'd wipe to the reaver and have another 10 to look forward to doing nothing.

[Nitros14]

First Four Horsemen kill was 24 minutes, front loaded difficulty. First Kael'thas kill 22 minutes with the main difficulty at the end (Well phase 4). First Illidan kill 23 minutes, front loaded difficulty with the Flames of Azzinoth, but the demon phases were still annoying.

Could be worse.

Also the last part of Mar'gok isn't really a spike in difficulty from the rest. It depends on how you handled the other phases. If you did the other phases very well and kept your healer mana high the last part of Mar'gok is really not harder than any other phase. Yes there's a reaver, just a little bit of tank damage that's all. No problem if your healers have mana because you did the other phases right.

[Ergar]

Madness was a long fight. Was it 15 minutes? I know we hit enrage on it before it was nerfed..

14-16 minutes before the nerfs if memory serves.

[Deleted]

I don't think they're disagreeing that end bosses are often long, I think they are saying that they don't feel Imperator counts as an "end boss" for this tier.

heroic Blackhand is just as long from ptr. if mythic has an extra phase itll be even longer.

[theyanger]

First Four Horsemen kill was 24 minutes, front loaded difficulty. First Kael'thas kill 22 minutes with the main difficulty at the end (Well phase 4). First Illidan kill 23 minutes, front loaded difficulty with the Flames of Azzinoth, but the demon phases were still annoying.

Could be worse.

Also the last part of Mar'gok isn't really a spike in difficulty from the rest. It depends on how you handled the other phases. If you did the other phases very well and kept your healer mana high the last part of Mar'gok is really not harder than any other phase. Yes there's a reaver, just a little bit of tank damage that's all. No problem if your healers have mana because you did the other phases right.

You're mistaking kill video length for boss fight length. Nihilum's Illidan video is 22 minutes, the actual fight is like 16.5

[Nitros14]

You're mistaking kill video length for boss fight length. Nihilum's Illidan video is 22 minutes, the actual fight is like 16.5

Maybe. I remember my guild's first kill was 18 minutes on Illidan and 19 minutes on Kael'thas.

Memento Mori had to break up their Four Horsemen kill video into three parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viethGGp2Q4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKIX4cPx3vk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtVyexUN6_o

24 minute kill. I know D&T killed it first, can't find their video.

Anyway I think Imperator Mar'gok is a great fight. The only gigantic offender I can think of that the OP might be justified in complaining about was heroic Sha of Fear.

[Deleted]

Imperator is nothing compared to Braken

[Deleted]

I absolutely despise the imp fight, and I dint even know why exactly, as I killed him in week 1

It's just infuriating, and I can't put my finger on why.


Edit: no, not on mythic.

[Gamestar]

Why not? Imp fight's a decent fight when you break it down. It's all about personal responsibility in that fight, which for some people, they can't handle. It's not like the mindless faceroll of some of the other fights in the game.

Truly shows apart the better players in a guild. If someone keeps triggering mines, then they just have to sit out, or if your melee constantly screw up the brands (or ranged for that matter).

It's a nice change compared to some other really boring fights.

Does it suck when you wipe when he's at 3%? Hell yeah seeing as the fight only really starts in phase 4, but that's just how it goes.

https://i.imgur.com/iLCeuTi.png

[dawawe]

Except the last 4 minutes are far from the hardest of the fight. (assuming you meant Cho'gall with this)

I meant you spend most of the fight killing a boss for no reward just to kill another boss for the loot

https://i.imgur.com/iLCeuTi.png

THis is talking about mythic get out of here with your heroic garbage

[RyanEX]

Imp reminds me of Kael'thas. And here I thought his was the greatest fight in the world. Good to see them rose coloured glasses come off once in awhile.

On topic Flamebender looks like it can be a long fight as well having to go through her abilities from 25 energy onwards repeatedly.