Undercover bar stings; legality

[Gumboy]

I am not posting this because it happened, but simply because I am wondering if it SHOULD. Should it be legal for the police to send undercover's into bars in order to see who is drunk/drinking a lot, and stop them from drunk driving? Perhaps a lesser charge, telling uniformed cops outside that their is a drunk getting behind the wheel, and stopping them before they pull out of the lot/parking space?

I was at the bar tonight, first time in a LONG while, and I had my two beers (Blue moon), and I observed so, so many people like..falling down drunk leaving at closing time, and driving off. My gast was literally flabbered. I will admit that when I was younger, around 21-22, I drove drunk home like twice. I am not proud of it, and I look back on that as the worst decisions of my life (And I voted for bush once). I lived out in the middle of nowhere and had like 15 miles to drive to the bar as well, so its not like it was just around the corner or something.

The issue is, these are not some young, dumbass kids like I was (And not trying to excuse myself). They are grown ass adults that should know better. I don't believe in the whole nanny state...but wouldn't it be better for EVERYONE involved if the police were allowed to do something like in my first paragraph? Stop people before they drive drunk and give them a lesser charge/ticket, and get them a cab home?

[Joán]

Why should it be a "lesser charge"? If someone is drunk and gets behind the wheel, nail them to the wall before they kill someone.

[Gumboy]

Why should it be a "lesser charge"? If someone is drunk and gets behind the wheel, nail them to the wall before they kill someone.

Well, technically it would not be a "DUI" at that point, but if they waited til they started driving but had someone on the inside, it would be entrapment for dui (Or so lawyers would argue)

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Also, if they stopped them before they pulled out, it could prevent them from hurting anyone.

[Justin-Sane]

Personally, I think it's a waste of time to pay cops to sit in bars to look out for drunk people who may or may not actually use their car. As for the legality of it, I see no reason for it to be illegal, and there's no real reason for them to be undercover. It's just cops in bars waiting for drunks to enter their vehicle, it's like if they were standing there waiting for a meter to run to give you a ticket. An easier solution is to have responsible bar tenders and managers rather than involving the police. See someone drunk? take their keys and call them a cab or something on the lines of that.

[Deleted]

It should be legal.
It would only be entrapment if the undercover cops buy them drinks or help them get drunk is some way.

Also, if you want to get drunk don't drive yourself, you won't have any problem with your car staying away from home.

[Justin-Sane]

It would only be entrapment if the undercover cops buy them drinks or help them get drunk is some way.

Not entirely. Getting them closer to being drunk doesn't push them to commit a crime (DUI). While it can lead to it, it isn't entrapment, as far as I know. Entrapment would be more on the lines of a cop dressed in normal clothes, asking someone drunk for a lift or trying to pressure them in some way to get them to drive.

[Ktperry]

Personally, I think it's a waste of time to pay cops to sit in bars to look out for drunk people who may or may not actually use their car. As for the legality of it, I see no reason for it to be illegal, and there's no real reason for them to be undercover. It's just cops in bars waiting for drunks to enter their vehicle, it's like if they were standing there waiting for a meter to run to give you a ticket. An easier solution is to have responsible bar tenders and managers rather than involving the police. See someone drunk? take their keys and call them a cab or something on the lines of that.

What? So the bartender is like - dude gimme your car keys. Lol. Sure this may happen in the local pub where you drink every night, but i dont it will work at all.
And given the laws in USA probably if the bartender gets his car keys he can sue him lol.

[Gumboy]

An easier solution is to have responsible bar tenders and managers rather than involving the police. See someone drunk? take their keys and call them a cab or something on the lines of that.

That never, ever seems to happen. their are like..three bars in the town near me, and I know of one bartender that has ever stopped someone from drinking, and that person was like falling down while ordering, over and over. It would be great if they did that, but it will pretty much never happen.

[Velaniz]

Should it be illegal to prevent cops from proactively doing something about scumbags that could potentially turn upside down the lives of families? Why the fuck should that be illegal? Drink-drivers are subhuman filth.

[Justin-Sane]

That never, ever seems to happen. their are like..three bars in the town near me, and I know of one bartender that has ever stopped someone from drinking, and that person was like falling down while ordering, over and over. It would be great if they did that, but it will pretty much never happen.

it's not exactly like "This guy's drunk, i'm going to grab his keys." I'm not sure they can do that, but I've seen places where you hand over your keys, and they give them back when you leave. if you're drunk, they'll give them to you after they call you a cab. You can do whatever you want though, you could just grab your keys and drive away, but they're just trying to help.

[Gumboy]

it's not exactly like "This guy's drunk, i'm going to grab his keys." I'm not sure they can do that, but I've seen places where you hand over your keys, and they give them back when you leave. if you're drunk, they'll give them to you after they call you a cab. You can do whatever you want though, you could just grab your keys and drive away, but they're just trying to help.

Yeah that does not happen around here. It probably should though

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Should it be illegal to prevent cops from proactively doing something about scumbags that could potentially turn upside down the lives of families? Why the fuck should that be illegal? Drink-drivers are subhuman filth.

Well, it is.

[Kalis]

Perhaps a lesser charge, telling uniformed cops outside that their is a drunk getting behind the wheel, and stopping them before they pull out of the lot/parking space?

Isn't it a DUI in the US as soon as they open the car door? In the UK it is an offence to be drunk in charge of a vehicle, that doesn't even require the keys to be in the ignition.

If that is the case, why should it be a lesser charge? If not, why not as, after all, the intent is still there?

[obdigore]

Isn't it a DUI in the US as soon as they open the car door? In the UK it is an offence to be drunk in charge of a vehicle, that doesn't even require the keys to be in the ignition.

If that is the case, why should it be a lesser charge? If not, why not as, after all, the intent is still there?

It depends on the state laws. I've got a friend who was charged with a DUI because he was sleeping it off in the back seat of his car in the bar parking lot, and had his keys in his pocket. Other states require the car to be on, at the very least.

[Gumboy]

It depends on the state laws. I've got a friend who was charged with a DUI because he was sleeping it off in the back seat of his car in the bar parking lot, and had his keys in his pocket. Other states require the car to be on, at the very least.

Wow that would suck. I mean...maybe a public intoxication charge for that, but damn.

[Twinkelle]

It definitely should not be illegal.

As for the use of resources? They're quite happy to park cops on roadsides to catch speeders, although that does generate some income. DUI, in my opinion, is generally worse so I'd be more than happy to have more felons getting caught.

[Kalis]

Wow that would suck. I mean...maybe a public intoxication charge for that, but damn.

Being drunk in charge of the vehicle is often the offence, they just fall under the general drink driving/DUI umbrella.

[Slant]

I am not posting this because it happened, but simply because I am wondering if it SHOULD. Should it be legal for the police to send undercover's into bars in order to see who is drunk/drinking a lot, and stop them from drunk driving? Perhaps a lesser charge, telling uniformed cops outside that their is a drunk getting behind the wheel, and stopping them before they pull out of the lot/parking space?

I was at the bar tonight, first time in a LONG while, and I had my two beers (Blue moon), and I observed so, so many people like..falling down drunk leaving at closing time, and driving off. My gast was literally flabbered. I will admit that when I was younger, around 21-22, I drove drunk home like twice. I am not proud of it, and I look back on that as the worst decisions of my life (And I voted for bush once). I lived out in the middle of nowhere and had like 15 miles to drive to the bar as well, so its not like it was just around the corner or something.

The issue is, these are not some young, dumbass kids like I was (And not trying to excuse myself). They are grown ass adults that should know better. I don't believe in the whole nanny state...but wouldn't it be better for EVERYONE involved if the police were allowed to do something like in my first paragraph? Stop people before they drive drunk and give them a lesser charge/ticket, and get them a cab home?

You make a good case. But who'd pay for that? There are too many pubs and where there aren't too many, it's likely that cops are watching the pub already anyway. Also, I keep wondering... how much do you want the state to get involved in private affairs? If I was a bar owner, I wouldn't like the police snooping around checking how drunk people are. It'd hurt my business.

[Gumboy]

You make a good case. But who'd pay for that? There are too many pubs and where there aren't too many, it's likely that cops are watching the pub already anyway. Also, I keep wondering... how much do you want the state to get involved in private affairs? If I was a bar owner, I wouldn't like the police snooping around checking how drunk people are. It'd hurt my business.

Who pays for cops to sit behind billboards and ticket people for speeding?

And bar owners should NOT allow employees to serve obviously drunk people; pretty sure thats already a law.

[Deleted]

An easier solution is to have responsible bar tenders and managers rather than involving the police. See someone drunk? take their keys and call them a cab or something on the lines of that.

Not really a good solution. Bar staff are busy enough without monitoring everyone coming and going, assessing their drunken-ness, and then peacefully convincing them to give up their possessions/risking a confrontation if they wont.

An even easier solution is don't be an arsehole, and if you're in a group be a responsible friend and don't let others drive after a skin-full.

Anyway, yes it should be legal. Of course, it's unrealistic due to the manpower it would take to police every bar all the time.

[Deleted]

Who pays for cops to sit behind billboards and ticket people for speeding?

Not sure if serious. The amount of cops you'd need to send out to check a similar amount of people, but now just in bars compared to a busy highway, is a large magnitude. Costs would be insane.