Tools used by top PvE Unholy DKs?

[Graives]

I'm purely an Unholy player in a progression guild. I'm at ilvl 670 in the 663-677 bracket and on most bosses rank top 15-25% during good kills, but I'm always looking for ways to get closer to the top.

To any top 5-10% DKs who post/lurk here: are there any less-common tools you use to maximize your damage? For example, do you use a custom CLCInfo setup that is more effective than a reasonably well built WeakAuras string? Is there anything in particular that took you from my percentile to the next?

I'd like to clarify that this is not a "Fix my DPS" question, but rather a request for information on tools or addons that go beyond WeakAuras, CompactRunes, or any of the other commonly used DK tools.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Prag]

I'm definitely not a top 5% DK, but I feel pretty confident in stating that most of them aren't using anything like CLCInfo... It's a lot like the PvP rankings - the people up there have been at it for quite some time and are deeply familiar with most of the following; their guild and strats, their class, editing API for SimCraft to be more custom for their setup, applying the findings from SimCraft to their gameplay and, most importantly, the drive to actually be at the top.

I know those are probably fairly obvious, but I highly doubt there's a magic addon configuration that makes them better... They're just better at the game.

[spanishninja]

I don't know about 5-10% but I can safely say rotation-wise I can achieve around 96-97% of my sim dps. I find that having a good rune display system is the most important. the default icon-based one is terrible and I tend to prefer one that displays runes as refilling bars. having a UI that accurately displays cooldowns is also good. definitely have a good system to tell you when Soul Reaper is ready to be used, as it is a huge factor in success. here's a log of a heroic butcher (just killed mythic the first time tonight so performance on that boss is far from optimal). it isn't world-best by any means but I feel it's good for a non-stacked pug:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dAgzHPpCMqQvNZWr

[Graives]

I don't know about 5-10% but I can safely say rotation-wise I can achieve around 96-97% of my sim dps. I find that having a good rune display system is the most important. the default icon-based one is terrible and I tend to prefer one that displays runes as refilling bars. having a UI that accurately displays cooldowns is also good. definitely have a good system to tell you when Soul Reaper is ready to be used, as it is a huge factor in success. here's a log of a heroic butcher (just killed mythic the first time tonight so performance on that boss is far from optimal). it isn't world-best by any means but I feel it's good for a non-stacked pug:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dAgzHPpCMqQvNZWr

Thank you for the useful reply! Actually, in that fight you were 95th percentile in the same ilvl bracket as me, so you're just the kind of player I wanted to hear from.

I do use CompactRunes for tracking runes, diseases, and Soul Reaper usage. I also use Skullflower's WeakAuras group for tracking cooldowns/procs as well as one I configured myself for tracking ability priorities, both placed near the CompactRunes frame for easy reference. Learning to use Soul Reaper properly was indeed my biggest gain in performance, and the addons helped me get used to that.

Does your setup sound anything like mine?

[Deleted]

I do use CompactRunes for tracking runes, diseases, and Soul Reaper usage. I also use Skullflower's WeakAuras group for tracking cooldowns/procs as well as one I configured myself for tracking ability priorities, both placed near the CompactRunes frame for easy reference. Learning to use Soul Reaper properly was indeed my biggest gain in performance, and the addons helped me get used to that.

Another important thing is the BossMod addon. You don't want to react on big calls from the bossmod, or react on spawned adds, you want to be prepared for them a few seconds before they spawn in order to maximize dot uptime etc. on them. It is the same to prepare for moments where you are not in melee range and can only do dmg with DC/DnD. After progression is over, such things make a bigger impact than one might think.
Aside from that your setup looks not that bad. You got the most important things (if with tracking cooldowns/procs does mean you also notice them accordingly und react on them) in order to maximize dps on a given encounter.
On a patchwerk fight everyone and his/her mother can maximize dps without to much stress. The harder part is not executing your priorities right, it is maximizing dps while, doing stuff an encounter requieres (for example: moving out of void zones, gripping/mass gripping, kicking, ...).

Also always remember that DURING progression, max overall dps is most of the time not the way you get first kills.
I know that this is not exactly a response to your tool question, but it might help you.

I stopped raiding progression mid SoO, so I can't link you top logs, but after ToT I got placed 6 for UH Dks on Proraiders and I got a few #1 during, or shortly after progression, so I hope my advice won't be "worthless".

[jellyfrog]

Honestly you don't need tools or any of this fancy stuff, just your mind. I haven't played WoW since WotLK, came back a few days before WoD release. First time playing DK. I've had top 10 rankings on some bosses, top 50 is my lowest ranking in Heroic Highmaul. In Mythic I've hit 95%+ on most bosses. On normal Koragh (rofl) I topped the current #1 parse by 5k dps (sadly not logged as our usual logger was away and the guy logging didn't turn on advanced combat logging, got the screenshot though).

At the same time I've also ranked as low as 10% on some bosses from time to time. It's a continuous learning experience, especially for someone like me who's completely new to the class and very rusty with the game.

There's a lot of stuff that goes into maximizing your dps. Probably the main thing is to be absolutely clued up on how your raid is handling everything, even the little things that don't affect you directly. Have a good relationship with your tanks and raidleader, then you can suggest small changes to strategies that might increase your damage output (as long as it's not detrimental to the raid as a whole). Study every aspect of the encounter during wipes so you can figure out how to line up cooldowns with phases where you can do the most damage (generally AOE phases). Don't get stressed about the little things, I've had top 50+ parses on fights where I fucked up my rotation completely (I have a 96% ranking on Mythic Bracken where I wasted 4 death runes on BB because I didn't realize the spore shooters had already died, was paying too much attention to Decay cast). Things like that are not a big deal, so just ignore them and regroup.

I also find that being in a good mood helps to perform optimally, especially on farm I make sure to have some good music playing to keep me happy and engaged.

The only addons I use are CompactRunes and TellMeWhen for cooldowns.

Mythic Bracken: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings
Mythic Koragh first kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings
Heroic Koragh rank 6: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
Heroic Imp rank 20: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

For the luls:



Also remember that a lot of the really high parses on bosses like Tectus, Kargath and Imp came from pre-BB nerf, it takes a perfect storm to reach those levels of DPS on an AOE fight nowadays, so wait for Foundry rankings to judge yourself on AOE heavy fights.

Lastly, the only thing that matters during progression is the boss dies. Don't get too caught up in your DPS, almost all the top rankings will be on farm bosses where people can pad and such.

Best of luck in your search for those extra deeps bro, but look within yourself, not at some addon.

[Graives]

Thank you both for the informative responses. I knew I could count on the community here for some solid direction. Again, I'm not trying to break forum guidelines and turn this into a fix DPS thread, but to comment on some of the responses while staying on-topic as best I can:

I do use BigWigs/DBM and even use a few WeakAuras strings to alert me about certain boss abilities. I just didn't mention them because I didn't see them as particularly relevant to a pure DPS addon discussion. Nevertheless, I completely agree that using them to be more reactionary will naturally return more DPS as you get more comfortable with any certain fight. Glad to know my setup isn't too far off base. Also, I do have a very good relationship with my raid, as I'm co-GM of my guild, and our team has been awesome with helping me maximize my damage (which usually benefits the other melee too, so I don't feel super selfish).

Man, jellyfrog, that is some impressive stuff. Kudos to you. I totally understand what you mean about doing really well sometimes and poorly others - DPS can be an unforgiving role if you have bad pulls, make early mistakes, or the group just isn't feeling it that night. I'm trying my best to be self-reliant, and I need my trackers less and less as time goes on. I basically just watch for Plague Leech, Defile, and Outbreak, as well as Unholy Strength/Incandescence procs (are you using TMW for similar things?). Getting soul reapers to detonate on every aberration during Imp, for example, is something I've gotten comfortable with as well, and I never used addons for that. I'll surely look over your logs and see what you're doing differently than me though!

The reason I posted is because a ret paladin in my guild that I have an ongoing friendly competition with spoke with me about the CLCInfo setup he uses, and said it helps him make decisions based on .1 second windows in his rotation where priorities can change. I just wondered if there is anything that intricate with the Unholy priority that a) I have failed to identify and b) an addon could assist with. So far your answers seem to indicate that human error is nothing that will deprive Unholy of its rightful place as top DPS (I kid, of course).

[spanishninja]

here's a video of the kill I linked earlier that I made to help a guildie with his UI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjEj...ature=youtu.be

I feel it's pretty clean. Never been a fan of overly-customized UIs but I feel the rune bars is still crucial. And as you can tell, this kill was far from perfect. Defile was not quite 100% uptime, runes got out of sync. I may have even missed a soul reaper. but it does go to show you that RNGs can be a bitch and you don't really have to worry about hitting simmed DPS in the real world. just be as close as possible!

[Saiyendra]

I don't think a different rune display is necessary at all; after playing a DK for a while, you become so comfortable with runes that you hardly need to look at them.

[Graives]

here's a video of the kill I linked earlier that I made to help a guildie with his UI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjEj...ature=youtu.be

I feel it's pretty clean. Never been a fan of overly-customized UIs but I feel the rune bars is still crucial. And as you can tell, this kill was far from perfect. Defile was not quite 100% uptime, runes got out of sync. I may have even missed a soul reaper. but it does go to show you that RNGs can be a bitch and you don't really have to worry about hitting simmed DPS in the real world. just be as close as possible!

Great vid! Looks like you're pretty much doing what I'm doing. My group took about the same amount of time to kill him, so it's really good for comparison. So it seems rotational hiccups are obviously detrimental, but not to a large degree unless it's very excessive. That leaves a lot more room for human error than the .1 second decisions my ret guildie has to deal with, and it seems a more precise addon would be pointless for unholy. Looks like my question is thoroughly answered. Thanks again!

[jellyfrog]

Great vid! Looks like you're pretty much doing what I'm doing. My group took about the same amount of time to kill him, so it's really good for comparison. So it seems rotational hiccups are obviously detrimental, but not to a large degree unless it's very excessive. That leaves a lot more room for human error than the .1 second decisions my ret guildie has to deal with, and it seems a more precise addon would be pointless for unholy. Looks like my question is thoroughly answered. Thanks again!

It's very very difficult to make a "mistake" with the Unholy rotation, at least as it stands now. The UB/NP playstyle has a bit more potential for mistakes however it also plays quite a bit slower I feel so you have more time to assess. What you do need to do is not panic when things start to get a bit hairy. Especially when you're using RC sometimes things will go a bit mental and you need to stay calm and know what to prioritize. There are occasions where you hit 100 RP, SD has procced, RC is still going and all your runes are about to be ready. For a long time I was like shit I need to dump this SD proc and dump this runic power before I expend runes and get more runic power. I believe I was wrong in this instance, I *think* that uncapping your runes is most important (even though you're wasting RP and potential procs) followed by dumping your RP.

Also, if you do use RC like I do, use your Death Coils in a controlled fashion. If you have 2 x Death and 1 x Unholy, it's often better to expend those runes before using a DC because if you get a RC proc that could potentially lead to capping runes because you have three GCD's to get through before your next set of runes start capping (if you have 1 x Blood, 1 x Frost and 1 x Unholy it's usually okay because that's only two GCD's you need to get through). Similarly, try to use Plague Leech when you have few runes. The way I try to do it is use it when you only have 1 x Unholy rune available (right after a FeS or 2 x ScS on Death runes) so you can use that rune to re-apply, then use the two death runes, and you won't cap runes (or if Outbreak is available, spend all your runes then use PL).

Lastly, the thing I recently added to my play is Empower Rune Weapon. For a long time I neglected this CD because it feels quite "meh" imo. The fact that it makes you cap runes and stuff just irritated me, trying to find a good time to use it and then I would just forget. What I do now is when you get to 3 minutes in, hit Strength Potion, Garg and trinket, spam away all your runes and then ERW. This actually gives you a really huge burst and depending on fight length can give you a couple of thousand extra DPS. Obviously depending on mechanics you may want to save ERW for when burst is actually needed, but as a general rule this is an effective way to use that CD.

[Deleted]

Trying to not make this a circlejerk ----

He's clearly just asking what we're using, not what you need. Addons aren't NEEDED as stated, but they can make things easier, so you can focus on tacts.

I use :
Magic Runes
ElvUI
Bigwigs
WeakAuras 2

Magic Runes because it's simplistic, and it's much easier to keep track of than tiny orbs with a swirly in them.

ElvUI because it's simply the one I like the most, simplistic.

BigWigs because it doesn't take up as much as Deadlybossmods, and at the time I switched, a lot more customizable.

Aaand WeakAuras 2. This one. This one can make things a lot easier for you. Ima give you muh strings.
If you download WeakAuras 2 type /wa click "Import" and put in these strings(only if you want them ofc)

Shadow Infusion stacks
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Dark Transformation and how much time Timmeh got left in it.
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Soul Reaper
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Blood Tap charges
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Whenever Defile is ready, this guy pops up.
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[Deleted]

Man, jellyfrog, that is some impressive stuff.

Not to poop on anyone's party intentionally, but is it, really? It's normal Ko'ragh. Personally I ran normal Highmaul once, the week it came out, and haven't stepped in there since. I'm not even doing heroic runs anymore. I'm willing to bet many people do the same. I'm sure mr. jellyfrog is a fine DPS DK, but perhaps not 10% above everyone else.

[Deleted]

Yup. Very much agree. Impressive rankings happen on Mythic where all the good people are progressing or farming.

[Iysdexia]

Addons that reformat your rune/runic power layout are not required, but highly recommended. It's all about finding a layout that you feel comfortable with.

Once you manage that, I recommend finding an addon that can track certain things for you, such as buffs and cooldowns. The most popular buff/CD tracking addons are TellMeWhen and Weakauras.

Personally, I use the standard Blizz UI for my rune/runic power layout. I've tried using other layouts, but I am most comfortable with the standard.

Of the top of my head, I would suggest to track these things using either addon (or both) that I mentioned above:

• Shadow Infusion (So you know when you can use DT)
• Dark Transformation (So you can pool RP right before it ends for maximum uptime)
• Soul Reaper CD (While managing a 6sec CD may seem insignificant, SR is your highest DPET ability besides Defile, so casting as many Soul Reapers as you can is a decent dps increase)
• Trinket Procs (So you know when to pop Garg)
• Trinket ICDs (So you know when that trinket might proc)
• Blood Charge (So you know when you're capped/going to cap)
• Legendary Ring proc (Same reason as trinket procs)

Other abilities are important to track, but don't necessarily require an addon to easily track.

[Faenlyn]

Yup. Very much agree. Impressive rankings happen on Mythic where all the good people are progressing or farming.

Don't hate. 42k DPS is 42K DPS. It's impressive even if it is normal

[jellyfrog]

Not to poop on anyone's party intentionally, but is it, really? It's normal Ko'ragh. Personally I ran normal Highmaul once, the week it came out, and haven't stepped in there since. I'm not even doing heroic runs anymore. I'm willing to bet many people do the same. I'm sure mr. jellyfrog is a fine DPS DK, but perhaps not 10% above everyone else.

Look at the rankings. The dudes below me are the same ilvl, and the dates of their kills are also recent. Regardless, as I said twice in the post, that was just for lulz. A normal ranking is pretty meaningless, what surprised me about it was being 5k above the next guy, that is a huge jump. Rank 6 Heroic Koragh, rank 20 Heroic Imp, 96% Mythic Bracken. I think I know what I'm doing

- - - Updated - - -

Trying to not make this a circlejerk ----

He's clearly just asking what we're using, not what you need. Addons aren't NEEDED as stated, but they can make things easier, so you can focus on tacts.

Point is he already stated he uses CompactRunes which does everything that all your weakauras do in one small addon. He already has the addons that tell him everything he needs to know so additional ones are unlikely to improve his performance. Small tips and things people don't necessarily think about, adding 1k dps there and 1k dps here, those things stack up and can make you a much more effective player. An addon isn't going to add a few thousand dps.

[Deleted]

Look at the rankings. The dudes below me are the same ilvl, and the dates of their kills are also recent. Regardless, as I said twice in the post, that was just for lulz. A normal ranking is pretty meaningless, what surprised me about it was being 5k above the next guy, that is a huge jump. Rank 6 Heroic Koragh, rank 20 Heroic Imp, 96% Mythic Bracken. I think I know what I'm doing

Never said you didn't know. But if you, for example, chug a potion twice in a 130 seconds long parse that's the 5k difference right there already. Just keeping it in perspective.

[jellyfrog]

Never said you didn't know. But if you, for example, chug a potion twice in a 130 seconds long parse that's the 5k difference right there already. Just keeping it in perspective.

Indeed, it's just an interesting outlier. As I said it's meaningless, just vaguely interesting. The only reason I posted logs was because the guy wants advice from players of a decent level so the logs were the proof of that. The reason I posted the normal shit is I didn't have anywhere else to share it and this thread seemed semi-appropriate

[spanishninja]

Indeed, it's just an interesting outlier. As I said it's meaningless, just vaguely interesting. The only reason I posted logs was because the guy wants advice from players of a decent level so the logs were the proof of that. The reason I posted the normal shit is I didn't have anywhere else to share it and this thread seemed semi-appropriate

what I typically do is compare my parses with parses in the same fight length range. I know that there's no way I can compare with a kill done in 3mins when mine are more like 4.5.