Thread: To 5 or 4 heal.

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  1. #1

    To 5 or 4 heal.

    Hey guys, I was looking over my logs and looking at some other logs and thinking that we could probably drop a healer to DPS for our group. Healers would definitely have to step up their game a little bit, but I think we could swing it.

    Here's logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

    What do you guys think?
    Who should we drop if anyone?

  2. #2
    Most of Highmaul could and should be 4 healed. 5 makes sense for Brackenspore progress, but I've seen people 4 heal that as well.

    Tectus is actually usually 3 healed. Not sure about BRF, but I'm sure 4 will be the norm, with a few 5 heal fights and maybe a 3 heal fight in there.

  3. #3
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    What we've done so far:
    Kargath 4
    Twins 4
    Brackenspore 4
    Tectus 3
    Butcher 4
    Ko'ragh 4

    Probably the same pattern in BRF.

  4. #4
    Hmm ok. So out of our healers who should be sat?

  5. #5
    Definetly the Disc priest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Definetly the Disc priest
    Oh i agree defenitely :P

  7. #7
    Deleted
    BRF is in 2 days. We don't really know how many healers will be needed for each fight.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    There are really only 2 or 3 bosses in Mythic Highmaul where the amount of raidwide damage warrants 5 healers - Brackenspore, Imperator, and possibly Ko'ragh. The rest are definitely 4-healable (or 3 in the case of Tectus).

    There are a few telltale signs that you've got too many healers:

    1. Your disc priest is outhealing everyone else by a long way - it means that the other healers are spending more time sitting there with nothing much to do except "topping off" player health bars. (Disc is the only healer who almost never finds themselves in that situation because Absorbs are always the first line of defense).

    2. All of your healers are pushing out a lot of overheal. Most of them are losing ~30% or more to overhealing - that's a huge number which indicates a high level of mana and healing waste.

    3. Healer rankings are very low (Except the disc priest). Unlike DPS rankings, healing ranks don't reflect healer skill for throughput healers like HPriest/RDruid - it's much more an indication of healers being under-used.

    4. Some healers are finishing the boss fights with buckets of mana remaining. Sometimes healers make the mistake of trying to save a lot of mana to cover for mechanical failures, but that kind of thinking rarely pays off and tends to be counter-productive.
    Last edited by mmoc2462c4a12d; 2015-02-01 at 06:25 PM.

  9. #9
    5 healing kind of seems excessive. If you are taking enough damage that you need all five healers you might want to have the tanks focus on mitigating damage even more and at specific times in the fight or having your healers think more about anticipating damage. Or simply reminding everyone that fire is bad can sometimes help, I know my guild occasionally forgets.

    If your group is really struggling on dps, do 4 heals. If they are struggling on hps, do 5 heals.

    Not sure how viable it would be in mythic but we have experimented with using kind of 3.5 healers in heroic a bit. Three dedicated healers (Pally, Disc, and Shaman) and a resto druid primarily doing wrath spam. The idea is to get half a persons amount of dps out of that spot along with the group healing from dream of cenarius. I realize most of the healing classes now have some variant of this, but we liked druid for the tranq cd and ironbark. Basically, have them sit there and spam wrath, cast mushrooms, growth, life bloom on the current aggro tank, regrowths on omen proc, and rejuv->swiftmend and nature swiftness in emergency. They should stay at high mana constantly since they are primarily just using wrath and can switch to dedicated healing in times of emergency.

    The entire purpose of this would be if you want a little bit more dps but can't sacrifice an entire healer. Again though, we run 4-5 dedicated healers in mythic still depending on boss, 4.5 might work but it isn't something we've tried in mythic.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the advice guys. Pretty bad of me but i was actually in shadow gear on that pull >< I'm curious how i would do in my actual 676 gear vs my 668 gear.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Well my guild decided to 6heal Mythic butcher (progression) and whine about the low amount of Hps being pulled by the 2 monks and why our Disc priest was so far ahead!

    Moral of the story: Don't 6heal anything, please.

  12. #12
    Yeah we were 5 healing butcher and it felt like we had to many heals.

  13. #13
    We actually overhealed quite a few fights because we had enough dps to down the encounters.

    4 Kargath
    6 Ogron
    5 Bracken
    4 Butcher
    4 Koragh
    6 Margok

    Pretty sure we wouldn't have done as good as we did without overhealing Ogron, Bracken, Margok.

  14. #14
    For Highmaul;. I would take 5 healers to Orgron (light DPS check, no need for 4 unless your DPS is really that bad), Koragh (heals power through shadow and MC orb detonation), and Imperator.

  15. #15
    We have been doing 3-4 Kargath, 4 Butcher, 4 Brack, 3 Tectus, 3 Twins, 4 Korag. Imperator we use 5 & it feels like we wont really be able to drop from that for a while, tho maybe with set bonuses it will change. Our first kills on brack & korag were 5 i think

  16. #16
    Deleted
    We did the first kill as this: 3 Kargath, 4 Butcher, 4 Brack, 3 Tectus, 4 Twins, 4 Korag and for Imperator mythic we started with 5 (and 3 tanks) but actually can be 6 heal (and 2 tanks with good use of cds) to simplify the fight quite a bit.
    Last edited by mmocd2a2ae8157; 2015-02-02 at 08:47 AM.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    My guild has sort of an overflow of healers for some reason so I think we even went as far as 6 healing mythic kargath and 5 healed Ogrons. Blizzard has obviously tuned mythic for 5 healers, but it seems completely viable to go down to 4 healers to make the dps checks easier if your healers and raiders are competent.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    We actually overhealed quite a few fights because we had enough dps to down the encounters.

    4 Kargath
    6 Ogron
    5 Bracken
    4 Butcher
    4 Koragh
    6 Margok

    Pretty sure we wouldn't have done as good as we did without overhealing Ogron, Bracken, Margok.
    Same here ! We have very good DPS, so we did :
    5 Kargath (4 now)
    5 Orgron
    5 Brackenspore
    3 Tectus
    5 Butcher
    and looking at 5 for Koragh.

    Honestly, except Butcher, Enrage is not really a problem. So why not 5 heal it ?

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alianthos View Post
    Same here ! We have very good DPS, so we did :
    5 Kargath (4 now)
    5 Orgron
    5 Brackenspore
    3 Tectus
    5 Butcher
    and looking at 5 for Koragh.

    Honestly, except Butcher, Enrage is not really a problem. So why not 5 heal it ?
    i think 5 healers is often ok if u have good DPS. the hard enrage is not always the reason to prefer 4 over 5 heal setup. currently my raid is progressing on brackenspore mythic. in the beginning we started with 5 heals whereas the big adds survived way to long since our DPS was not strong enough. that often lead to tank death. tectus is something similar i think. i didn't kill him mythic but i can imagine that u want to minimize the length of the chaotic end of this fight, so u go with 3 instead of 5 ^^ some bosses have abilities which cannot be healed and need to get avoided. in that moments it can be nice to have those abilities 1 or 2 times less than with more heal and less dps.
    i think its always very individual. in an optimal environment where everybody performs really nice, less healers means faster kills, means more efficiency ^^

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by philsndude View Post
    i think 5 healers is often ok if u have good DPS. the hard enrage is not always the reason to prefer 4 over 5 heal setup. currently my raid is progressing on brackenspore mythic. in the beginning we started with 5 heals whereas the big adds survived way to long since our DPS was not strong enough. that often lead to tank death. tectus is something similar i think. i didn't kill him mythic but i can imagine that u want to minimize the length of the chaotic end of this fight, so u go with 3 instead of 5 ^^ some bosses have abilities which cannot be healed and need to get avoided. in that moments it can be nice to have those abilities 1 or 2 times less than with more heal and less dps.
    i think its always very individual. in an optimal environment where everybody performs really nice, less healers means faster kills, means more efficiency ^^
    On Brackenspore using a 3th Tank is going to be more beneficial then a 5th healer by far.
    Not for total damage taken, but bracken tanks need CDs for breath, so they cant just save them for high stacks on add. If you have one extra tank for that job it should smoothe healing required significantly.
    Also, beside spores there's not that much to heal anyway, and a solid CD rotation takes care of these.

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