High Tide Range and Chain Heal Glyph

[Deleted]

Hey we are progressing Mythic imperator and I have a question about High Tide and the Chain Heal Glyph.

Does anyone know how the range on both works and how they interact exactly?

I once read a Post that said that Chain Heal can jump to any riptide target within 30 yards of the original target, which makes high tide actually increase the range of your chain heal by quite a lot if you have enough riptides running.

But I guess if I use the glyph it just improves the basic jump distance and has no impact on the high tide targets.
Does anyone know how both of these work exactly and if it makes sense to use both in spread out fights?

[Koor]

After the initial target which we select, chain heal does the first 3 jumps as usual -- 12.5 yards of the previous target unglyphed, or 25 glyphed.

The target with the biggest HP deficit within that 12.5/25 yards is selected, so chain heal is still semi-smart. It's not selecting the lowest HP, but the one with the largest deficit, so if for example a dps has the lowest HP, and the tank has more HP but a bigger deficit since he has larger stamina to begin with, the tank may be selected.

Then after chain heal does its normal target selection, with high tide, jumps to additional targets with riptide are considered. Only targets to which chain heal didn't jump already can be selected at this point, so if the normal chain heal target selection mechanic happened to choose targets with riptide, they are not considered again for high tide jumps.

From the remaining targets with riptides, high tide selects the targets with the largest HP deficit within 30 yards of the initial chain heal target (the one we casted chain heal on). Chain heal, with high tide, can hit a total maximum of 6 players. So if the original chain heal before high tide healed 4 people (initial + 3 jumps), there are up to two additional jumps on targets with riptide. However if the original chain heal didn't jump at all, it can then jump to 5 additional targets with riptide within 30 yards of the CH target, again to fill the total maximum of 6 players.

So it's actually hard to answer your question, it depends While glyphing chain heal increases the chance it'll hit the initial four targets, it can happen that due to the increased range, it can select targets with riptide that are further than the 12.5 yards chain but within the 30 yards, and then they won't be selected for high tide. So in some cases we might actually gain less total jumps when glyphing.

[Deleted]

After the initial target which we select, chain heal does the first 3 jumps as usual -- 12.5 yards of the previous target unglyphed, or 25 glyphed.

The target with the biggest HP deficit within that 12.5/25 yards is selected, so chain heal is still semi-smart. It's not selecting the lowest HP, but the one with the largest deficit, so if for example a dps has the lowest HP, and the tank has more HP but a bigger deficit since he has larger stamina to begin with, the tank may be selected.

I actually didn't know this. Did you test this yourself or do you have a source?

[Koor]

I actually didn't know this. Did you test this yourself or do you have a source?

Yes, I tested it.

[Trophi]

Blue quote from http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...thy-gameplay/:

We also took a look at healing spells that were passive or auto-targeted (so-called "smart" heals). We want healers to care about who they're targeting and which heals they're using, because that makes healer gameplay more interactive and fun. To that end, we're reducing the healing of many passive and auto-targeted heals, and making smart heals a little less smart. Smart heals will now randomly pick any injured target within range instead of always picking the most injured target. Priority will still be given to players over pets, of course.


This is how it seems to work for me. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, Koor.

[oldnmean]

Tool tip reads as follows

Heals the friendly target for (162.5% of Spell power), then jumps to heal the most injured nearby targets. Healing is reduced by 10% after each jump. Heals 4 total targets.

It is one of the few tool tips which specifically says most injured. Other smart heals such as atonement and wild growth now just refer to healing a random injured party within range.

[wutpoae]

High Tide and Glyph of Chaining is an interesting topic in my opinion. Personally I've always felt that using High Tide kind of downvalues the need for Glyph of Chaining due to the increased jump distance to the Riptide targets.

[Lothrik]

Blue quote from http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...thy-gameplay/:

We also took a look at healing spells that were passive or auto-targeted (so-called "smart" heals). We want healers to care about who they're targeting and which heals they're using, because that makes healer gameplay more interactive and fun. To that end, we're reducing the healing of many passive and auto-targeted heals, and making smart heals a little less smart. Smart heals will now randomly pick any injured target within range instead of always picking the most injured target. Priority will still be given to players over pets, of course.


This is how it seems to work for me. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, Koor.

Read the tooltips for Healing Stream Totem and Chain Heal.

HST: "heals an injured party or raid member"
CH: "jumps to heal the most injured nearby targets"

They're different for a reason: Chain Heal is one of the few (possibly the only?) remaining true smart heals in the game.

It wasn't until WoD that HST's tooltip changed from "the most injured" to "an injured" -- you can verify this yourself by looking at the changelog on Wowhead.

[Tesshin20]

High Tide and Glyph of Chaining is an interesting topic in my opinion. Personally I've always felt that using High Tide kind of downvalues the need for Glyph of Chaining due to the increased jump distance to the Riptide targets.

Well the point of the glyph is that you make it jump to the riptide targets, since it obviously will not if the riptide targets are out of range. I at least never use High Tide without the Chain Heal glyph, except maybe on Butcher.

Another issue with the glyph is that you cannot spam chain heal anyway, so why not give it a 3 second cooldown?

[wutpoae]

Well the point of the glyph is that you make it jump to the riptide targets, since it obviously will not if the riptide targets are out of range. I at least never use High Tide without the Chain Heal glyph, except maybe on Butcher.

Another issue with the glyph is that you cannot spam chain heal anyway, so why not give it a 3 second cooldown?

Personally, I rarely feel that my Chain Heals are wasted due to it not jumping. Although I do understand that it might be beneficial to use the glyph in regards to the 3 second cooldown, the cooldown gives you a better timeframe to prepare and empower your Chain Heal with Riptide, Unleash Life and it's practically a guarantee that it will jump to all 6 targets (with High Tide ofc)

And like you said, we shouldn't spam Chain Heal anyway, however I do feel that there's moments of heavy burst damage in current content where back-to-back Chain Heals are quite nice.

[Deleted]

Personally, I rarely feel that my Chain Heals are wasted due to it not jumping.

But that is exactly why would use the glyph. You substitute "rarely" with "never". Furthemore, having a larger jump range also increases the possible target selection. The downside is obvioisly not being able to cast CH back-to-back.

[Keiyra]

They're different for a reason: Chain Heal is one of the few (possibly the only?) remaining true smart heals in the game.

Correct - renewing mists for monks is also still a full smart heal. RM and CH are the only 2 I know of for sure.

[wutpoae]

My point is though that I feel the benefit from casting back-to-back Chain Heals when needed outweighs the loss of Chain Heal jumps, in Highmaul atleast.

Nevertheless I'm gonna reconsider the Glyph of Chaining now when Blackrock Foundy is released, some fights are not really made for us Resto Shamans.

[Deleted]

I personally dont see the glyph of chain heal being viable on any fight once you get the 2/4 set.
Having the 4-set proc when you´re going glyphed Chain would feel terrible.
You can always work around spread-out fights with high tide (to a certain degree).

[Trophi]

Tool tip reads as follows

Heals the friendly target for (162.5% of Spell power), then jumps to heal the most injured nearby targets. Healing is reduced by 10% after each jump. Heals 4 total targets.

It is one of the few tool tips which specifically says most injured. Other smart heals such as atonement and wild growth now just refer to healing a random injured party within range.

Forgive me if I don't just trust the tooltip. They are usually the last to be updated correctly.

Especially since everything I read about initial theorycrafting from beta said it works like the other smart heals. For instance, https://healiocentric.wordpress.com/...and-high-tide/ says:

"Well, what is up with that is that smart heal technology is changing, so smart heals will no longer flock to the most injured player in the raid, but will choose randomly amongst them."

I looked through my logs and I couldn't find a good way to show the current health of all raid members when chain heal is cast. Pls to provide such proof.

[Irisel]

The 4 piece REALLY needs to remove the CD with glyphed CH while active. A glyph the majority of highend shaman take will greatly reduce the usefulness of the 4pc, totally an issue.

[oldnmean]

Forgive me if I don't just trust the tooltip. They are usually the last to be updated correctly.

Especially since everything I read about initial theorycrafting from beta said it works like the other smart heals. For instance, https://healiocentric.wordpress.com/...and-high-tide/ says:

"Well, what is up with that is that smart heal technology is changing, so smart heals will no longer flock to the most injured player in the raid, but will choose randomly amongst them."

I looked through my logs and I couldn't find a good way to show the current health of all raid members when chain heal is cast. Pls to provide such proof.

I agree that Blizzard is notorious for out of date tool tips, though it would be bizarre if they forgot to do the CH tip while updating all the others.

Your "pls provide proof comment" feels a bit like being asked to provide proof that you don't beat your wife, since you admit that you can't show that the spell is now not doing most injured.