Guild with Prot Pally problem at Brackenspore: Need Help

[satanicway]

Hi, sorry to make a post just for this, but i have a problem at my hands that i need help.

I'm RL for a Mythic group that is still on brackenspore, we should have killed it weeks ago and made a better progression but we are stuck for many reasons, including losing 4 healers in two weeks for IRL problems... =/

But the problem is not exactly that.

I have a paladin tank in my guild that is dying alot tanking brackenspore. He dies way more then the Death Knight, yet their healing required seems similar.
Many deaths occur to 7-stacks add (he dies with 6 or 7), and most in fact happens during breath times.

Sometimes he is not topped, because he takes a big hit just prior to the breath, and even with hots and instant heals he enters breath without topped life, but many of then happens at full HP, and he is using CD's, i'm sure of that, and we are using externals too, so im not sure what is happening.

- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CQPDB2nT1Z6M9hpV#
- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LnDv9zaq1hb72Z8P

Those are the logs of two of our raid days, i'm no prot paladin expert, but it seems he is using less Crusader Strike and Judgement then other paladins in the same amount of time.
But im not sure on that...

What is happening? Is he bad at tanking?
Or our healers are the problem? (does not seems so, since the DK dies way less, and we even tried having 2 healers focused on the tanks...)
There is anything we are doing wrong, or he is doing wrong?
Is it his rotation? Or his uptime of any of his defensive skills?

Please help me with this.

Most of our raiders are blaming him ALOT, but i know he is a dedicated guy, and he read the forums, and study his class, so i need outside points of view on the issue, to see who is really at fault here.
I don't want to kick or ask him to roll dps, if he is not the one causing us the problems. (And some of our raiders that acuse him wants him to be booted, blaming him for our inability to kill the boss, even when they themselves die to waves and mushrooms...)

Thanks for your time.

[Deleted]

The first thing I noticed in this is that most of his deaths that were due to Necrotic Breath, he either didn't pop Divine Protection early enough, or not at all. If he hasn't already, it would be worth removing the glyph, as the Necrotic Breath is the most threatening ability for tanks, and what he should be using every Divine Protection for.

Also, I am not entirely sure by the logs, but it doesn't look like he is saving a 5 stack Bastion of Glory WoG to recover his health after every necrotic breath. Due to the large amount of resolve gained from the Necrotic Breath itself, it is normally a full heal.

Also on some of the pulls I am noticing about a 20% uptime on Shield of the Righteous.
(warcraftlogs . com /reports/CQPDB2nT1Z6M9hpV#type=auras&source=5&fight=14&ability=132403)
Whereas even using Seraphim (which reduces holy power spent on SotR by using it on Seraphim), I managed to get 35% uptime.
(warcraftlogs . com /reports/6WKhqjrGC1nXQvk2#type=auras&source=36&ability=132403).
I know uptime isn't as much of a thing as it was in MoP, but it is still worth mentioning. I DID notice he had pulls where his uptime was at 35% even 40%, so I would maybe question if it is his consistancy that is causing an issue.

Maybe somebody who has actually done the fight may be able to shed some more light on it, but these are just the things I noticed by having a quick scan at the logs, nothing in-depth.

[sage]

Tell him to stop casting word of glory so much. His SotR uptimes are trash, because he's casting word of glory way too much.

Looking at pull #1, he casted WoG 15 times, and SotR 23 times. That gave him a 22% SotR uptime, which is abysmally low. That, on top of the 28% Sacred Shield uptime, means he's taking a ton of unnecessary damage, and is too focused on trying to heal it back himself.

Some pulls are better than others, but its the same general problems. Too much WoG, not enough SotR, not nearly enough Sacred Shield.

He should also use the Divine Protection glyph, it's better for almost every fight in highmaul.

Either way, looking through all the wipes, there was only a few that we're wipes because of him (most of which could be fixed if he used SotR more often). He is probably a pain in the ass to heal, and thats probably why your raiders are blaming him, but there are a lot of other problems :P


Tell him to use holy power on sotr. treat wog as an emergency oh shit button. have 5 holy power/DP for every breath. can use DP while tanking add as well, its a 30 second cd and he isn't using it enough. use big cd's when infesting spores happens/when the add is 6+ stacks.

[Kazuchika]

The first thing I noticed in this is that most of his deaths that were due to Necrotic Breath, he either didn't pop Divine Protection early enough, or not at all. If he hasn't already, it would be worth removing the glyph, as the Necrotic Breath is the most threatening ability for tanks, and what he should be using every Divine Protection for..

Can we stop telling people to do this because it's completely wrong. The breath is not what kills you. The melee swings during the breath are what kill you.

[satanicway]

I will show him this topic.

But just so i can understand and explain, the problem is that he is using too much HP on self-healing and having low uptime of his Active Mitigation. (SotR)
So he should trust the healers more, and keep SotR uptime better, like using one prior to breath so that he can take less melee damage, and keep the glyph so the DP reduces the melee hits?

Can't he generate 3 HP to self heal after the breath during to breath time?
He can use his HP's to build SotR time for entire breath duration, and during the breath produce HP to self heal after it if he wants to play safe.
Or this is not the best way?

[AanvilGT]

On one of the logs you linked, half the raid was dead to infesting spores before him... so I'm not sure that indicates a tank problem. He actually died from trying to save the dk tank with Hand of Sacrifice. On the other log, he died to the first Necrotic Breath, which seems pretty nuts. He was topped off before Necrotic breath, so it's not the healers although a discipline priest would help. He failed to keep Shield of the Righteous up throughout the breath and took a full melee swing. He had divine protection up, which is good. He also used Hand of Purity, which helps a tiny bit but seems like a waste as it only reduces the dmg of necrotic breath by 10%. It reduces the dmg of Rot by 80%, but hardly seems like the best use of that talent tier compared to having divine protection up every 30 seconds or using hand of purity during infesting spores, which it actually works for. Finally, right before he died, he cast word of glory for no healing because of Necrotic Breath, then got hit by the boss for an unblocked melee swing and died. Perhaps he was trying to do the big heal suggested above and just hit it too soon. For the rest of that log, he cast WoG way too often instead of Shield of the Righteous, but that doesn't appear to be the same in all of your logs.

In general, for survival problems, you should look at Shield of the Righteous uptime and his Sacred Shield uptime (his is VERY low) as well as use of cooldowns. Number of casts per minute of Crusader Strike and Judgment are only relevant to the extent they explain low uptime for Shield of the Righteous because of low holy power generation.

Bonus: For the two logs you linked, neither of your tanks are pre-potting.

[sage]

I will show him this topic.

But just so i can understand and explain, the problem is that he is using too much HP on self-healing and having low uptime of his Active Mitigation. (SotR)
So he should trust the healers more, and keep SotR uptime better, like using one prior to breath so that he can take less melee damage, and keep the glyph so the DP reduces the melee hits?

Can't he generate 3 HP to self heal after the breath during to breath time?
He can use his HP's to build SotR time for entire breath duration, and during the breath produce HP to self heal after it if he wants to play safe.
Or this is not the best way?

Yes, he is using too much holy power on self healing, and not enough on sotr. It's your healers job to keep him alive, for the most part. this isn't mists of pandaria anymore :P

Don't worry about some big wog right after breath - worry about keeping sotr up for the entire breath, as well as glyphed DP. 100% sacred shield uptime is kind of a requirement as well.

[hashtags]

Can we stop telling people to do this because it's completely wrong. The breath is not what kills you. The melee swings during the breath are what kill you.

I agree & please don't unglyph DP.

Secondly if he is having trouble surving through breaths, tell him to ask for externals. Sac, Vigi etc. But to be honest DP & Seraphim should be up for every single breath. Lastly Sacred Shield uptime should be 95%+ there is like no reason for it to be not that.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...auras&source=5

He used Sacred Shield twice in that pull? By the way I would suggest just using Holy Shield instead of Seraphim. He will get better mileage with his play style.

[sexybeast]

Also, comparing a bdk and a pala in this fight is a complete joke. Bdk can just AMS the breath and lol ant the meele swings from both the boss and the add.

Palas need either a disc priest spamming CoW and bubbles on them or an external for each breath. Well at least they did at 660/670 ilvl

[hashtags]

Also, comparing a bdk and a pala in this fight is a complete joke. Bdk can just AMS the breath and lol ant the meele swings from both the boss and the add.

Palas need either a disc priest spamming CoW and bubbles on them or an external for each breath. Well at least they did at 660/670 ilvl

On our kill i had iron bark on me on every breath + dp + seraphim or something like that.