Having a hard time coming back.

[Bapestar]

I play mostly Arena lately because constructed gets old pretty quickly. I like Totalbiscuit's approach to constructed - trying out various silly decks at ranks 12-16 and just have fun out of it. It's fun to actually construct deck yourself and then crush the unexpecting opponent because he THINKS that I use some kind of netdeck, then boom surprise! Aggro hobgoblin priest, you weren't expecting that don't you? Get rekt cancermage!

...Thing is those decks while providing lots of fun and satisfaction WHEN they work, they usually don't. Some people treat HS way too seriously. It is not a competitive game, especially after GvG release with so much RNG involved in the games. I just play it for fun. Getting matched up against 10 net decks in a row in constructed isn't fun.

This is where Arena steps in. Instead of copycat decks you actually play around more stuff because the player might run it, or might not. Or might have 3 or 4 of it, who knows. It's a fun mode and after a while you can get good enough to keep playing it without spending any real money. I average about 7-8 wins in Arena and I'm not a good player at all. The best I did in constructed was like rank 6, couldn't be fussed to grind higher.

While I do agree arena can be more fun than constructed, sometimes I feel like arena is all about playing alot of minions.

[Mormolyce]

So build a deck that counters Handlock

Viola. Problem solved.

From the sound of it I doubt he has a control warrior/fatigue mage :P

- - - Updated - - -

While I do agree arena can be more fun than constructed, sometimes I feel like arena is all about playing alot of minions.

Yeah, or at least maximising board value.

Which isn't a bad thing since that's such an ineffective strategy in constructed most of the time. Nice to see some cards that you haven't played for over a year in constructed are good in arena.

[Nikkaszal]

From the sound of it I doubt he has a control warrior/fatigue mage :P

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, or at least maximising board value.

Which isn't a bad thing since that's such an ineffective strategy in constructed most of the time. Nice to see some cards that you haven't played for over a year in constructed are good in arena.

Don't need a meta deck to counter one specific - if he's facing as much Handlock as he claims he can cobble together something that couples strong early pressure and burst with lots of removal and some silence. A shaman deck with double BGH, double Hex, double ES, and Bloodlust will annihilate a Handlock, throwing TBK in if he has it to seal the deal.

[Mormolyce]

Don't need a meta deck to counter one specific - if he's facing as much Handlock as he claims he can cobble together something that couples strong early pressure and burst with lots of removal and some silence. A shaman deck with double BGH, double Hex, double ES, and Bloodlust will annihilate a Handlock, throwing TBK in if he has it to seal the deal.

I'm not so convinced, handlock isn't something you counter with a random deck. It's not a one tricky pony at all, it has a swiss army knife of utility abilities - removal, aoe, you name it. The only way to consistently beat it is to find a way to remove all four giants, both drakes AND do something about Jaraxxus. That is not something you can do by chucking some removal in your deck, handlock preys on the fact that no deck can realistically remove six things in the time it takes for hand to play them (very short).

[Nikkaszal]

I'm not so convinced, handlock isn't something you counter with a random deck. It's not a one tricky pony at all, it has a swiss army knife of utility abilities - removal, aoe, you name it. The only way to consistently beat it is to find a way to remove all four giants, both drakes AND do something about Jaraxxus. That is not something you can do by chucking some removal in your deck, handlock preys on the fact that no deck can realistically remove six things in the time it takes for hand to play them (very short).

Well yeah that's what I'm going with, with the anti-handlock shaman idea - something designed SPECIFICALLY to slap handlocks. ES is saved for Drakes as they are the single most efficient counter. 2 x BGH and 2 x Hex take care of all the giants, and the addition of Crackle to the Shaman kit with this expac gives them yet ANOTHER answer to high-HP minions, especially because it is so cheap you can very easily combo it with Azure or fish for a SP totem to give it extra Weetbix before clearing up with a cheap minion. DHammer + Rockbiter and/or Bloodlust are superb burst finishers for either before or after he plays Jaraxxus.

In addition, a ton of Handlock utility minions (Healbot, ERF, Sunfury and DoA) are 3-HP and perfect for picking off with Fire Ele to lessen his board and prevent them from being PO/Shadowflame fodder.

Best part is, you can do this super cheap - apart from the luxury TBK you just need to craft a few epics like BGHs and DHammers. Then fill with basic staples like Azure, Sludge, Loatheb is a great one (everybody has a Loatheb).

Such a deck is very strong against a LOT of control archetypes, though is susceptible to aggro. But hey, if he needs to beat handlocks then this is an answer.

Oh, and he needs to play against the lock's HP as well. When he dips below 18HP, stop attacking until you know you can burst him down. That in itself prevents Molten Giant plays until you dig out the removals or taunt bypass you need.

[Deleted]

Against a handlock is not only the deck, but also your playing skill.

If you just attack the face and let him to dip to 10 hp, then you are punished with two 8/8 taunts played for 2 mana. Or free giant + shadowflame to clear your board. It's your fault to let him play molten giants for 0 mana. Primary rule against handlock: do not attack him at <20hp unless you can lethal him (or you have lethal next turn that bypasses taunt wall, such as fireball or crackle)

Too many players just rush face nowadays. That's what makes handlock so strong. It's a hard counter to mindless face rush. Face health is just a resource, not an indicator whether you're winning or losing.

[Nikkaszal]

With most Handlocks running Repair Bot these days I would still be leery of swinging face with a nuke in hand.

Molten + Molten + DoA/SF + Repair Bot = you are PRETTY fucked.

[mongoose6]

Off Topic: Glad to see this thread got more productive. I agree with most of what Nikkaszal and Dannyl have to contribute but damn ya'll got salty quick on this one.

http://darklegacycomics.com/408

Welcome to the life of the broken veteran lol

On Topic: As much as it may kill folks, you need patience when playing a handlock. Yes it sucks that they are filling up their hand, but throwing out fodder and hitting face in a nonconstructive manner will lose you the game every time.

[Hizzle]

Thanks for the tips but I must say even when I build a shaman deck to counter handlock I still rely entirely on whether I draw what I need at the right times. Half the time all my best removal will be middle/bottom of my deck and by then I'll most likely already be screwed. Handlock is seriously just a pita to face and I personally believe they need to rework how fast the giants cost goes down. On top of all the great minions and removal they also now have antique healbots and malganis which makes an already annoying deck 10 times harder to beat. Even when I get my random win against one I'm so pissed off I had to face another one I don't even feel like playing anymore. It is my most hated deck in hearthstone period.


Thankfully it seems to be evening out today after a rough 5 days I'm seeing mostly mage/hunter/rogue and my overall win rate has increased significantly.

[Mormolyce]

Well yeah that's what I'm going with, with the anti-handlock shaman idea - something designed SPECIFICALLY to slap handlocks. ES is saved for Drakes as they are the single most efficient counter. 2 x BGH and 2 x Hex take care of all the giants, and the addition of Crackle to the Shaman kit with this expac gives them yet ANOTHER answer to high-HP minions, especially because it is so cheap you can very easily combo it with Azure or fish for a SP totem to give it extra Weetbix before clearing up with a cheap minion. DHammer + Rockbiter and/or Bloodlust are superb burst finishers for either before or after he plays Jaraxxus.

In addition, a ton of Handlock utility minions (Healbot, ERF, Sunfury and DoA) are 3-HP and perfect for picking off with Fire Ele to lessen his board and prevent them from being PO/Shadowflame fodder.

Best part is, you can do this super cheap - apart from the luxury TBK you just need to craft a few epics like BGHs and DHammers. Then fill with basic staples like Azure, Sludge, Loatheb is a great one (everybody has a Loatheb).

Such a deck is very strong against a LOT of control archetypes, though is susceptible to aggro. But hey, if he needs to beat handlocks then this is an answer.

Oh, and he needs to play against the lock's HP as well. When he dips below 18HP, stop attacking until you know you can burst him down. That in itself prevents Molten Giant plays until you dig out the removals or taunt bypass you need.

I was just disagreeing that you can cobble something together - yes the deck you mentioned seems to be a dedicated hand counter.

Even then though, such a deck would be of limited effectiveness outside of handlocks (which is one of the reasons a deck so strong it forces a specific counter is OP). Also, the handlock taps for like 5 rounds to make sure he has all the cards he needs to pull off HIS combos, but you're relying on blind luck to draw two ES, two BGH and two Hexes in time to counter him. I still think that outside of lucky draws, hard removal is a losing game vs. hand.

Against a handlock is not only the deck, but also your playing skill.

If you just attack the face and let him to dip to 10 hp, then you are punished with two 8/8 taunts played for 2 mana. Or free giant + shadowflame to clear your board. It's your fault to let him play molten giants for 0 mana. Primary rule against handlock: do not attack him at <20hp unless you can lethal him (or you have lethal next turn that bypasses taunt wall, such as fireball or crackle)

Too many players just rush face nowadays. That's what makes handlock so strong. It's a hard counter to mindless face rush. Face health is just a resource, not an indicator whether you're winning or losing.

That's the exact problem with hand, it fucks you either way - if you put out severe face pressure he just plays LOLmoltens. If you don't, you give him breathing room to tap his perfect cards and wall up with drakes/moutains. He also has hard removal, self heals, AoE... hand has a tool for every situation.

Hand is OP, end of story.

IMO, certain cards should have a limit of 1 per deck - especially giants.

[Bapestar]

Off Topic: Glad to see this thread got more productive. I agree with most of what Nikkaszal and Dannyl have to contribute but damn ya'll got salty quick on this one.

http://darklegacycomics.com/408

Welcome to the life of the broken veteran lol

On Topic: As much as it may kill folks, you need patience when playing a handlock. Yes it sucks that they are filling up their hand, but throwing out fodder and hitting face in a nonconstructive manner will lose you the game every time.

That comic was extremely inaccurate. Nikkaszal and Dannyl have many valid points, but they act like they are right 100% of the time, and anyone who says anything negative about HS are whiners and delusional. Handlock is a strong deck, but like many people have said, you just have to play slow and make smart decisions.

[Hizzle]

That comic was extremely inaccurate. Nikkaszal and Dannyl have many valid points, but they act like they are right 100% of the time, and anyone who says anything negative about HS are whiners and delusional. Handlock is a strong deck, but like many people have said, you just have to play slow and make smart decisions.

You don't understand how GvG handlock works now. They can afford to keep throwing away their health and play the hand giants then heal back to full TWICE with two antique healbots then even if you play it cool and wait for the late game and somehow manage to dispose of ALL of their big minions they toss down a mal ganis you can no longer remove which makes them immune to dmg unless he dies or gets silenced. Have fun with that. It's just an awful awful deck now and needs to be reworked.

[Nikkaszal]

You don't understand how GvG handlock works now. They can afford to keep throwing away their health and play the hand giants then heal back to full TWICE with two antique healbots then even if you play it cool and wait for the late game and somehow manage to dispose of ALL of their big minions they toss down a mal ganis you can no longer remove which makes them immune to dmg unless he dies or gets silenced. Have fun with that. It's just an awful awful deck now and needs to be reworked.

See, this is the problem:

You've been provided the advice to beat handlocks and you're STILL going "wahh wahh wahh it's too hard nerf nerf nerf". I told you how to build a deck that is a DIRECT counter to handlock (so much so it's basically a free win) but that's not as much fun as having a good old-fashioned cry!

And people wonder why I get stroppy at whine threads.

[Hizzle]

See, this is the problem:

You've been provided the advice to beat handlocks and you're STILL going "wahh wahh wahh it's too hard nerf nerf nerf". I told you how to build a deck that is a DIRECT counter to handlock (so much so it's basically a free win) but that's not as much fun as having a good old-fashioned cry!

And people wonder why I get stroppy at whine threads.

And I say your direct counter is flawed and mentioned why already in another post. I also mentioned that I finally stopped seeing them after 5 awful days. Some others here are right. You are a very rude person and need an attitude adjustment.

[Nikkaszal]

And I say your direct counter is flawed and mentioned why already in another post.

Flawed. Right. I've given you a counter that has an answer to everything, explaining why it works and how to play it. Your response is to come back with absurdities like "healing to full twice" with Repair Bots after Giants (HINT: REPAIR BOTS COST 5 AND HEAL FOR 8. TO HEAL TO FULL THEY'D HAVE TO BE ON 22HP. THAT'S A 12-MANA GIANT. JUST IN CASE YOU WERE UNAWARE OF BASIC MATHS) and apparently Mal'ganis being this big scary raid boss that is just, like, so totally impossible to deal with omg this deck so cheap nerf nerf nerf.

You're crying. That's ALL this is. You have no desire to actually get better, or learn how to beat it, all you want to do is come here and yell at people.

Good day.

- - - Updated - - -

Some others here are right. You are a very rude person and need an attitude adjustment.

Welcome to the world, where a sense of indignation and entitlement doesn't always end in the "pat pat there there" you so desperately craved.

[Bapestar]

Flawed. Right. I've given you a counter that has an answer to everything, explaining why it works and how to play it. Your response is to come back with absurdities like "healing to full twice" with Repair Bots after Giants (HINT: REPAIR BOTS COST 5 AND HEAL FOR 8. TO HEAL TO FULL THEY'D HAVE TO BE ON 22HP. THAT'S A 12-MANA GIANT. JUST IN CASE YOU WERE UNAWARE OF BASIC MATHS) and apparently Mal'ganis being this big scary raid boss that is just, like, so totally impossible to deal with omg this deck so cheap nerf nerf nerf.

You're crying. That's ALL this is. You have no desire to actually get better, or learn how to beat it, all you want to do is come here and yell at people.

Good day.

- - - Updated - - -


Welcome to the world, where a sense of indignation and entitlement doesn't always end in the "pat pat there there" you so desperately craved.

Just because you build a deck to counter handlock does not mean it will succeed each time. You can give advice and criticism without being rude.

[Nikkaszal]

Just because you build a deck to counter handlock does not mean it will succeed each time. You can give advice and criticism without being rude.

There is not a single deck anywhere with a 100% success rate even against what it counters, and to expect such is the height of naievete. You build a counter-deck to give yourself the right tools to use and the BEST CHANCE of winning.

How is this so difficult to understand?

[Bapestar]

There is not a single deck anywhere with a 100% success rate even against what it counters, and to expect such is the height of naievete. You build a counter-deck to give yourself the right tools to use and the BEST CHANCE of winning.

How is this so difficult to understand?

It's not difficult to understand, but you however act like Handlock isn't OP just because you can build a counter-deck. That still doesn't excuse you from being extremely rude.

[Ichifails]

they're the two most rude people you can run into on this board...

So telling someone he is losing because he's shit is considered "rude" now? Holy fucking shit the over sensitivity.

[Deleted]

Nikkaszal and Dannyl have many valid points, but they act like they are right 100% of the time ...

Yeah, have to admit I get that quite a lot but I think it is mainly just my inability to operate on the opposite presumption

... and anyone who says anything negative about HS are whiners and delusional.

It's not that, really. I would welcome some genuinely valid criticism and anybody who knows me, knows that I'm very good at being critical myself. However, where it all goes wrong is when 95% of all the "criticism" is just venting. Instead of just screaming into a pillow, felling a tree, or any other possible option, people come to the boards and just post nonsense.

Not only that but it gets worse when majority of it is the exact same criticism that people all over have been dealing with since before the release. For example, you can still go to the official forums and still find people complaining about divine spirit / inner fire, mind control, and whatnot. Same in here; you get endless threads about P2W and other nonsense that has been shown and proven wrong countless times.

In the case such as this, where it is a specific class or deck that is giving them grief, instead of coming out and asking for advice, they simply argue about how OP it is and how unfair it must be that they need to design their decks around it. Never mind the fact that this is what a competitive card game is all about.

So it really is no wonder that people are getting fed up with it all.