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  1. #41
    First there is a thread stickied here that's for stuf like this, I think it's Fix My DK DPS v2 now. Might get more attention there, though unless a mod merges it now you're already here so I'll help a bit

    I am phone posting, and world of logs doesn't like phone browsing too much but I was able to see plenty wrong.
    He's not using Soul Reaper at all on some fights, the ones he is using it he's getting fairly few casts. On darmac for example that fight has tons of time with the bosses sub 35%, yet he didn't have all that many casts. Now and then he casts Blood Boil, which especially as a 2h frost dk he should never be doing.
    He very very very rarely casts anti-magic shell. It's so rare he has the buff from bloodlust more then he does AMS. It's a defensive CD as well as offensive because of the runic gain, so he's missing out on a lot of free damage from it

    That's all I can really say on phone, but those alone will account for a lot. Soul Reapers one of our strongest attacks for its costs, AMS use can net you tons of free damage over the course of a fight, and BB is just plain not used by frost DK's.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    First there is a thread stickied here that's for stuf like this, I think it's Fix My DK DPS v2 now. Might get more attention there, though unless a mod merges it now you're already here so I'll help a bit

    I am phone posting, and world of logs doesn't like phone browsing too much but I was able to see plenty wrong.
    He's not using Soul Reaper at all on some fights, the ones he is using it he's getting fairly few casts. On darmac for example that fight has tons of time with the bosses sub 35%, yet he didn't have all that many casts. Now and then he casts Blood Boil, which especially as a 2h frost dk he should never be doing.
    He very very very rarely casts anti-magic shell. It's so rare he has the buff from bloodlust more then he does AMS. It's a defensive CD as well as offensive because of the runic gain, so he's missing out on a lot of free damage from it

    That's all I can really say on phone, but those alone will account for a lot. Soul Reapers one of our strongest attacks for its costs, AMS use can net you tons of free damage over the course of a fight, and BB is just plain not used by frost DK's.
    I put it in that thread 2 days ago, no response.

    Also, is it never worth BBing to spread Blood Plague? Or just better to HB Spam and not worry about Blood Plague at all?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Breyers View Post
    I put it in that thread 2 days ago, no response.

    Also, is it never worth BBing to spread Blood Plague? Or just better to HB Spam and not worry about Blood Plague at all?
    Hmm strange it didn't get a response. I normally only respond to Unholy though, so might be why I didn't notice it there.
    If he's going to BB he is essentially spending a tune that could have been used on Defile, HB, SR, or even just kept to later line up with another rune for Obliterate. All of those highly out damage a BB and BP would not even really be worth the damage. Single target yes he should keep up BP, but it's not needed for aoe for frost.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    That's all I can really say on phone, but those alone will account for a lot. Soul Reapers one of our strongest attacks for its costs, AMS use can net you tons of free damage over the course of a fight, and BB is just plain not used by frost DK's.
    Soul Reaper isn't "one of" the strongest abilities per resource DKs have, it's flat out the strongest.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Hmm strange it didn't get a response. I normally only respond to Unholy though, so might be why I didn't notice it there.
    If he's going to BB he is essentially spending a tune that could have been used on Defile, HB, SR, or even just kept to later line up with another rune for Obliterate. All of those highly out damage a BB and BP would not even really be worth the damage. Single target yes he should keep up BP, but it's not needed for aoe for frost.
    I was reading Skullflower's guide, which is why I asked.

    "You’ll want to Plague Strike that Plague Leeched mob to keep diseases active on that target unless you haven’t used Blood Boil yet. Blood Boil only when you can spread dots to 4 or more targets. Use Defile if the targets will remain in the ground effect for 5 ticks or more."

  6. #46
    First, let me just say that I think it's really nice that you try to help your buddy. I would probably be pretty mad at him for slacking and trying to grab gear that would be better used on me :P So kudos to you for that.

    However, I really can't fathom why you would try to fix a specc that really just doesn't perform at the moment. I'm personally tanking myself and every time I hear somebody say "Yeah, I know that specc X does way more damage than my specc, but I just really don't like X" I would like to punch a whole through the wall. I get that it is all about fun, but in raids, you spend time as a team and you try to achieve stuff as a team. And playing a specc that doesn't perform is just selfish and hurting the group over all. You are effectively having fun on the expense of other people who have to make an extra effort to compensate for what you are not contributing.

    Or, if you really want to make a simple example: How about tanks just don't specc into their tank speccs "because they think other speccs are more fun"? How about I just go and tank as Unholy, because I feel like it? And just use blood presence? Unacceptable. I get that playing this game is about fun, but it's also about respect and slacking on purpose because you refuse to help out as best as you can is a bad thing. And it shouldn't be encouraged by trying to squeeze out 2k DPS more out of a subpar specc, when you would just gain 8k DPS by playing a more suitable specc.

  7. #47
    Wow 2 handed frost as well, not even dual wield?
    Some times you just gotta let em know.
    Its one thing to play a spec that is poor and play it to a high percentage.
    Then at least you can't complain.
    But if you as a raider aren't competing and you know the spec you play is gimped, why wouldn't you want to improve?
    People like that simply need to be told. Let em know you can bring em for farm and stuff, but no progression until he puts more effort forward.
    Co-Owner of ONELegionTV - Guides, Tanking, Blood DK Soloing Mythic+ and other discussions about all things in WoW: Legion
    ONElegionTV

  8. #48
    If you have to post for them and they won't take the time to do it themselves then you should tell him he's no longer welcome to raid with you. He could've easily posted here himself and by asking to stay frost he should be making up for it by playing it the very best he possibly could. There's simply no reason he should be raiding. I understand not wanting to swap over to Unholy, at first I didn't want to either, but I much prefer the play style now. I highly doubt he's gone more than a day as Unholy and has a very strong opinion about not playing it; I call that being an Lfr player.

  9. #49
    While I appreciate the sentiment, we're a group of close friends who know eachother in real life, so none of us would feel comfortable phasing or 'booting' a friend out of the raid. According to Skullflower's Sims, Frost is about 4% behind, so hopefully it's not game-breaking.

    So I'm really looking for any advice or mistakes that can be corrected from either his gearing / execution of the Spec to maximize his performance as Frost.

  10. #50
    It looks to me like he is really lazy and not looking to improve. Tell him to step up his game, he is doing horribly for the ilvl he has. Honestly, I am doing way more than him as 2H frost, and I'm only 669 :/ Seeing as frost is really simple overall, he should look at Skullflowers guide. And also, he probably shouldn't have Blood Tap, it doesn't look like he can handle it perfectly. Don't take what I said as final, I'm in no way amazing at this game, I just know what I need to know!

  11. #51
    Again, I'm looking for advice for him, gear/gameplay-wise... Not the fact that I'm posting and not him, or that people think he shouldn't be raiding etc.

    I'm just looking to help him improve or limit mistakes being made.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Breyers View Post
    Again, I'm looking for advice for him, gear/gameplay-wise... Not the fact that I'm posting and not him, or that people think he shouldn't be raiding etc.

    I'm just looking to help him improve or limit mistakes being made.
    He's playing Frost so room for improvement is going to be very limited unless he can't do the very basics of playing a DK. Use PoF on CD, keep your diseases on the target, you press Obliterate when you have the runes to do so and you press FS when you have no runes, when Rime procs you spend that before dropping back into OB and FS. If your using Plague Leech then you pop it when you have a Rime proc, BP is about to fall off and you have 2 runes on CD. If you have Defile then pop that on CD. For AoE he should press HB as often as he can although considering 2H's niche it might just be better to let him sit on the boss.

    So ye.....that's Frost.

    If he wants to gear for 2H Frost then it's Haste>Multi>Vers>Crit>Mastery I think. Your friend also seems to have the Outbreak glyph, pretty confident it's really bad for any DPS DK.
    Last edited by Kronik85; 2015-02-28 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Gearing and Armoury policing

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Breyers View Post
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Defmin/simple
    Spec: Two-Handed Frost
    World of Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q2...um/damageDone/
    Questions: Looking for any insight as to why our second DPS Death Knight is struggling to pull higher numbers. I am the other Death Knight in the raid, and I'm not overly experienced with analyzing Frost Parses, as the last time I played Frost was Dual-Wield Frost in WotLK when there was still Armor Penetration. I know Two-Handed Frost is truly least-ideal of all of the specs for BRF, but should it be making this much of a difference? We did a normal clear tonight to get some friends/alts gear, so I figured it would be an okay gauge to use for performance, as it was a large number of bosses for a larger variation in fight-types.

    If anybody sees any blatant errors being made either in gearing or execution of the spec I'd love to hear it. I'm currently trying to convince him to go Dual-wield.

    My first impression is not enough Howling Blasts on add-intensive fights?
    This is old response since im seeing you typing needing help here, First and fore most, DW deals less ST dmg but higher aoe damage just to get that out of the way.

    After the change of necrotic plague he should use that, since its flat out better. especially when used in aoe sitations, most aoe boss fights, and u dont need to waste bloodboil.

    You also gain 1 rune to apply disease when outbreak is on cd you lifeleach when you get your HB procc and the disease is close to disperse of the target.

    the glyph of outbreak is a big big NO, dont.

    with his gear he should pull around 31-34k(depends on his skill minor mistakes and rng KM proccs aswell.)

    he got way to high crit and low mastery, in BRF u get forced to pick up mastery.

    But not crit. in HM it was crit.

    So he should not have so much crit.

    As for aoe fights i am using mastery focused gear, or i go unholy.

    to ppl complaining haha, you are playing one of the easiest speccs aka unholy.

    frost is tenfold harder due to it randomness, and unpredicted rotation pattern.

    unholy is more set in stone since pull.

    Frost is underperforming, but ppl should not be punished to play what they like to play, go to blizzard, that frost went from middle of the pack to fixed to good ST awful aoe, atleast they where one of the best ST speccs and awful aoe.

    To now go to being worst at everything.

    Is not frost fault, neither should players who like the old specc be punished for it.

    also on the obliterate vs SR actually dont deal that much damage, especially fro frost, reason is you with correct stats with around 11% crit raidbuffed(if not less)that means the possibility of it criting is very slim.

    the only thing that is that its cheaper to use that makes it better. and concidering FDK needs a buff dont be suprised if this changes, SR is actually one of the weakest executes in the game, and i really would like it to be in our rotation "buff" damage with 15sec cooldown to have, atleast for frost and remove KM.

    While Unholy keep it as an execute.
    Last edited by Fuzzah; 2015-03-01 at 09:57 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    Soul Reaper isn't "one of" the strongest abilities per resource DKs have, it's flat out the strongest.
    Defile still into being the highest damage per execute time, slightly over SR, though I would say they are close enough to be evenly ranked, as such why I said one of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breyers View Post
    I was reading Skullflower's guide, which is why I asked.

    "You’ll want to Plague Strike that Plague Leeched mob to keep diseases active on that target unless you haven’t used Blood Boil yet. Blood Boil only when you can spread dots to 4 or more targets. Use Defile if the targets will remain in the ground effect for 5 ticks or more."
    Hmm, seems like a big change from what most people I see posting about Frost say, so kinda weird to see. "shrugs" I don't play Frost, so I won't comment further on it, was just going on prior knowledge really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breyers View Post
    While I appreciate the sentiment, we're a group of close friends who know eachother in real life, so none of us would feel comfortable phasing or 'booting' a friend out of the raid. According to Skullflower's Sims, Frost is about 4% behind, so hopefully it's not game-breaking.

    So I'm really looking for any advice or mistakes that can be corrected from either his gearing / execution of the Spec to maximize his performance as Frost.
    Frost sims a lot better then it actually performs, it's historically been like that for a long time. A good way to describe Frosts position right now is that if you're a 99'th percentile ranking Frost DK, you're only meeting where something like a 70'th ranked Unholy DK is doing. So the gap is actually pretty sizeable.
    On a computer now so I'll give the logs more of a look and probably PM you a fight by fight breakdown.

  15. #55

    Exclamation Help our DK!

    Our DK is doing something wrong and he doesn't know what it is himself. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/23354 Logs for various fights.

  16. #56
    He's Frost, that about sums it up. He's doing fairly decent for being Frost, just he won't ever do much better because he is Frost. I didn't look at his gear, but Unholy will certainly give him better results unless he's full Haste gear or such

  17. #57
    I'm by no means an expert, but from the first one I looked at, his diseases need to be applied more (especially Blood Plague) he only has it up half the time. Plus Soul Reaper needs to be used more. I do prefer playing as Frost myself because I always liked the playstyle, but even I have to admit that Unholy is a lot stronger now and probably will be for quite a while seeing as Blizz don't seem to think there is anything wrong with Frost =p

  18. #58
    Considering you didn't explain what he needs help with, and you link logs that have him playing all 3 specs, it's a bit hard to figure out what exactly the problem is.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Calaelen View Post
    Considering you didn't explain what he needs help with, and you link logs that have him playing all 3 specs, it's a bit hard to figure out what exactly the problem is.
    Wait he's playing Unholy as well? I just looked quick since I'm on mobile, but if he can play Unholy why ever switch to Frost lol

  20. #60
    The only reasons i can think to go frost are:
    1: To Rank (not many playing it you can rank very easy)
    2: He is loaded with haste gear (not checked)
    3: He just really hates unholy.
    4: PVP

    Unholy is just so far ahead right now. My advice would be go unholy pickup some good gear if he has not already got and report a few logs here.
    - BattleTag: Adam#2586 -

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