De-Extinction

[Techno-Druid]

De-Extinction is the idea of resurrecting animals we killed off through cloning and selective breeding. Scientists are currently working on creating a mammoth clone or genetically engineered arctic elephant to be transported to the arctic in order to complete the long left ecological role they played in the arctic grasslands. Horses, bison, tigers, wolves and musk ox are being transported to Russia and in North America, there is talk of cloning the Passenger Pigeon, a pigeon that was hunted to extinction by man for cheap slave meat in the 18th century. Researchers are breeding primitive breeds of cattle and releasing them into the wild to replace their ancestors and extinct subspecies, the aurochs.

[vindicatorx]

They went extinct for a reason I say we have better things we could be working on.

[taliey]

Sounds nice.

Reminds me of Jurassic Park for some reason though.

I wonder if they became extinct for our protection though?

[Vanyali]

To put it bluntly:

this won't end well. not for us, but for the ones being "released", if they ever are.

with the rare exception, the environments those animals were evolved to simply don't exist anymore. The horses they're talking about, for example, were NOT the breeds we have today (you can look at the przewalski's wild horse for a good idea of what they looked like), and do not fulfil the same ecological niche. And the further back you go the more different that niche is, and the more it's covered by something already.

[Deleted]

I agree with that if they breed them for consumption and sell it for premium prices as gourmet food.

Totally something that would work.

[Techno-Druid]

To put it bluntly:

this won't end well. not for us, but for the ones being "released", if they ever are.

with the rare exception, the environments those animals were evolved to simply don't exist anymore. The horses they're talking about, for example, were NOT the breeds we have today (you can look at the przewalski's wild horse for a good idea of what they looked like), and do not fulfil the same ecological niche. And the further back you go the more different that niche is, and the more it's covered by something already.

Actually, it's the opposite, mammoths evolved to fertilize grass and trample weeds and bushes to allow more grass to grow. As a result of them going extinct, grass has slowed down in growing and as such the once lush arctic grasslands have been turned to scrub tundra.



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They went extinct for a reason I say we have better things we could be working on.

Yep, they went extinct because we intentionally killed them. We still don't know what one species taken away from an environment can do to it, I mean look at the wolves at Yellowstone.

[Vanyali]

Actually, it's the opposite, mammoths evolved to fertilize grass and trample weeds and bushes to allow more grass to grow. As a result of them going extinct, grass has slowed down in growing and as such the once lush arctic grasslands have been turned to scrub tundra.

You misunderstood; it's not because of the change that they don't exist, but because they don't exist things have changed.

Though there's evidence that the megafauna was on it's way out anyway, even without human interference - humans just kind of sped it along.

[Techno-Druid]

Sounds nice.

Reminds me of Jurassic Park for some reason though.

I wonder if they became extinct for our protection though?

Well the mammoth was no more a threat to mankind than any of the surviving elephants we have today.

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You misunderstood; it's not because of the change that they don't exist, but because they don't exist things have changed.

Though there's evidence that the megafauna was on it's way out anyway, even without human interference - humans just kind of sped it along.

Yes and these things can be changed back. I mean look at what happened with the wolves of Yellowstone.



Also, we're already trying to bring those other animals back, in fact we have. We've brought horses, bison and musk ox back to the permafrost and in the area they do roam, they have not only changed the area turning it into a grassland and allowing other surviving animals to thrive more easily, but the temperature has strangely changed because of it.

[Vanyali]

Yes and these things can be changed back. I mean look at what happened with the wolves of Yellowstone.



Also, we're already trying to bring those other animals back, in fact we have. We've brought horses, bison and musk ox back to the permafrost and in the area they do roam, they have not only changed the area turning it into a grassland and allowing other surviving animals to thrive more easily, but the temperature has strangely changed because of it.

The difference is that these are animals that aren't extinct; mammoths have been extinct for such a long time that other things have taken over their areas, or moved into the scrub tundra, which would then be displaced, which would then need a place for, which would displace other things...

putting a predator in to control a prey population when both already exist and the terrain wouldn't have to change to suit them is completely different than putting in a prey animal with no current natural predators, with the intent to change an area to conditions that may not even be viable anymore.

[Johnkie]

They went extinct for a reason I say we have better things we could be working on.

Yeah we made them extinct DUH.

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The difference is that these are animals that aren't extinct; mammoths have been extinct for such a long time that other things have taken over their areas, or moved into the scrub tundra, which would then be displaced, which would then need a place for, which would displace other things...

putting a predator in to control a prey population when both already exist and the terrain wouldn't have to change to suit them is completely different than putting in a prey animal with no current natural predators, with the intent to change an area to conditions that may not even be viable anymore.

im pretty sure the arctic tundras are man made, exactly because we got rid of the mammoth's...
Now there is VERY VERY select few animals that can live in those circumstances and areas.
Doubt it will have anything but positive effects on the tundras.

[Raging Penguin]

So as you say, you want to "de-extinct" animals that were wiped out by man. The thing is if scientist are successful in restoring them, how will they fit in today's society in today's world? Speaking of which, I wonder what does the Tasmanian tiger provide if it's brought back into this world.

[vindicatorx]

Yeah we made them extinct DUH.

You realize like 99.9% of all species that have ever lived on Earth at one time or another are now extinct right?

[MerinPally]

So as you say, you want to "de-extinct" animals that were wiped out by man. The thing is if scientist are successful in restoring them, how will they fit in today's society in today's world? Speaking of which, I wonder what does the Tasmanian tiger provide if it's brought back into this world.

Well something like the Tasmanian Tiger may not have much of a change considering it only went extinct ~80 years ago. That's not enough time for massive change although some will have been noted due to knock on effects. Environmental things like "more of this plant relative to that plant" rather than a big change, like what has happened with extinctions that happened thousands of years ago. Huge areas of land changed and in large ways.

[Vanyali]

im pretty sure the arctic tundras are man made, exactly because we got rid of the mammoth's...
Now there is VERY VERY select few animals that can live in those circumstances and areas.
Doubt it will have anything but positive effects on the tundras.

Well, that's the thing - no one knows for sure if humanity wiped out mammoths. And the suggestion is that no, they didn't, as ALL megafauna started to wane, though they might have helped.

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/tundra_animal_page.htm

A small list of animals that requires the tundra, one of which is already an extinct species.

[Techno-Druid]

The difference is that these are animals that aren't extinct; mammoths have been extinct for such a long time that other things have taken over their areas, or moved into the scrub tundra, which would then be displaced, which would then need a place for, which would displace other things...

putting a predator in to control a prey population when both already exist and the terrain wouldn't have to change to suit them is completely different than putting in a prey animal with no current natural predators, with the intent to change an area to conditions that may not even be viable anymore.

The terrain doesn't have to change completely to suit the mammoth and the mammoth only went extinct a little after Stonehenge and the Pyramids. Also, we technically don't need mammoths, Asian elephants are the closest relatives of mammoth and could do what mammoths did with no problem as well as possibly saving a species from extinction.

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Well something like the Tasmanian Tiger may not have much of a change considering it only went extinct ~80 years ago. That's not enough time for massive change although some will have been noted due to knock on effects. Environmental things like "more of this plant relative to that plant" rather than a big change, like what has happened with extinctions that happened thousands of years ago. Huge areas of land changed and in large ways.

10,000 is barely enough time for an environment to change..

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So as you say, you want to "de-extinct" animals that were wiped out by man. The thing is if scientist are successful in restoring them, how will they fit in today's society in today's world? Speaking of which, I wonder what does the Tasmanian tiger provide if it's brought back into this world.

Why does everything has to suit us? We have the ability to wipe out almost every species on the planet, in fact since 1970, nearly 50% of mammals have been killed off.

[MerinPally]

10,000 is barely enough time for an environment to change..

It's most certainly long enough to alter the kind of plant life that lives there. Less than 100 however is not. I'm not talking genetics here, I'm talking about what grows and what doesn't.

Sand dunes manage it in less time and they tend to move slower than most animals. If you don't think that 10000 years is long enough you're mad, did you know that large swathes of North Africa which is now the Sahara desert, were actually pretty green and fertile when the Romans were there? That's 2000 years. Even more so with the Egyptians. Granted this was pushed on by poor farming but yes, environments can most certainly change in 10000 years...

Edit: So I thought I'd go find a source, maybe it wasn't quite as fertile as I was thinking. The point remains that it still has changed a lot - in 2000-5000, let alone 10000.

[Techno-Druid]

It's most certainly long enough to alter the kind of plant life that lives there. Less than 100 however is not. I'm not talking genetics here, I'm talking about what grows and what doesn't.

Sand dunes manage it in less time and they tend to move slower than most animals. If you don't think that 10000 years is long enough you're mad, did you know that large swathes of North Africa which is now the Sahara desert, were actually pretty green and fertile when the Romans were there? That's 2000 years. Even more so with the Egyptians. Granted this was pushed on by poor farming but yes, environments can most certainly change in 10000 years...

Edit: So I thought I'd go find a source, maybe it wasn't quite as fertile as I was thinking. The point remains that it still has changed a lot - in 2000-5000, let alone 10000.

Nope, but it's enough to alter how the plants grow and live.

[madethisfor1post]

Bringing mammoths back from the recesses of history to terraform. What a time to be alive!

[Revi]

We can't manage to preserve the habitat of the animals already living, and the problems that drove those animals to extinction are probably far worse now.

Let's worry about not killing the rest before we start trying to force new animals into already strained ecosystems.

[Deleted]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toad#Australia