Saving Grace saving thread.

[Nurasu]

New info on saving grace for the pvp balance. It now has 2/3 effectiveness in PvP as opposed to the previous 1/2 effectiveness, making it heal for the same as the previous saving grace that had a casttime but incurring a higher penalty. Hard to tell if it's a buff or not to it in PvP.

I think it is a buff to pvp. You already try to use it as rarely as you can, but now when you do need to use it you have a much higher chance to actually get it off. I still hate it as a talent, but at least at 33% it's still viable (or at least more viable than the other 2 for arena T-T)

[anon5123]

^It's also instant cast. So you can use it to avoid interrupts and while moving.

Still doesn't help the fact that it gimps your healing for the next 8 seconds.

[Nurasu]

^It's also instant cast. So you can use it to avoid interrupts and while moving.

Still doesn't help the fact that it gimps your healing for the next 8 seconds.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. I think making it instant cast and increasing the debuff is an overall buff for PvP for the reasons you mentioned now that the healing is not lower than what it is on live. I still think it's déchets in PvE.

[kheath812]

as long as it has a healing debuff i wont use it. not worth it. it should just have charges or something.

[anon5123]

Yeah, in PVE it's just complete garbage solely because of the debuff. Blizzard doesn't seem to understand that and just keeps throwing buffs to the healing amount in hopes that players will use it...

[oderon]

I also think that the hps debuff makes SG situational, since you usually use it exactly when you need hps the most, and then gimp yourself.

Couple more options to consider:
- change debuff to reduce something else than HPS - i.e. increased mp cost of priest skills
- remove debuff, but make the skill usable only on targets with low hp. it might still need some cooldown or weakened soul effect to prevent abuse but keep the healing strong.
- remove debuff, but make the skill usable only when your mana is low
- change it to be like a single target CoP that replaces flash heal, with lower mp cost and increased effectiveness on low hp targets

[Noradin]

Cost increase could actually work somewhat, but a healing debuff for a spell to recover from sudden damage before more damage comes in? Why would I use something like that unless it is totally predictable and the only target to take significant damage? And if so we have other tools for that special case.

[Deleted]

If you cast it 3 times in a row you get about the same healing as 3 Flash Heals. This can be a nice combo to top someone. You can go PW:S, 3x SG. After that you can't really heal for 8 seconds but you can still move, Leap of Faith, Fear, Silence, Dispel etc.

This allows you to take Power Word: Solace instead of Surge of Light because you don't need those instant Flash Heals anymore. You can go more offensive then and even have less issues with mana.

If you can get a nice rotation going with Penance, PW: Solace, Smite as your offensive moves, you can somewhat counter the effects of SG with Archangel.

It's also worthwile in PvE on fights with predictable burst or with phases of high damage and phases of low damage. During the low damage phases you can heal with Atonement PW: Solace -> Penance -> Smite. When a high damage phase kicks in you pop Archangel and go for PW:S + 3x SG, which gives a LOT more burst healing compared to Penance/Flash Heal spam at the cost of reduced healing afterwards.

[nietz]

This thread should've been titled: "Gracefully saving Saving Grace"

[kheath812]

If you cast it 3 times in a row you get about the same healing as 3 Flash Heals. This can be a nice combo to top someone. You can go PW:S, 3x SG. After that you can't really heal for 8 seconds but you can still move, Leap of Faith, Fear, Silence, Dispel etc.

This allows you to take Power Word: Solace instead of Surge of Light because you don't need those instant Flash Heals anymore. You can go more offensive then and even have less issues with mana.

If you can get a nice rotation going with Penance, PW: Solace, Smite as your offensive moves, you can somewhat counter the effects of SG with Archangel.

It's also worthwile in PvE on fights with predictable burst or with phases of high damage and phases of low damage. During the low damage phases you can heal with Atonement PW: Solace -> Penance -> Smite. When a high damage phase kicks in you pop Archangel and go for PW:S + 3x SG, which gives a LOT more burst healing compared to Penance/Flash Heal spam at the cost of reduced healing afterwards.

its still on the global so theres no reason not to just flash heal, or anything else, really. its not like youre the only healer in the raid and damage is very predictable this xpac, you shouldnt even need to press an oh shit button 3 globals in a row. it will just ruin your output. destroying your healing for 8 seconds to take it upon yourself solely to possibly save one person is not worth it.

[Anastacy]

This thread should've been titled: "Gracefully saving Saving Grace"

Or "Saving Saving Grace Gracefully."

[nietz]

Or "Saving Saving Grace Gracefully."

I like that better because it's confusing!

[twistedmynd]

Mathematically speaking here, this is worthy to be compared to the other 100 talent choices. Most of the feedback saying "saving grace is lackluster" has no mathematical basis. Rather, this feedback is psychological. People don't like the "feeling" of being personally mortal stricken.

But if you look at the returns of how much healing you gain if you can make 100% effective use from it compared to the other spells you would be casting, it's the best spell in the 100 row for healing per second and healing per mana on paper.

I also have been watching the feedback on this ability since WoD alpha, so my past experience tells me that most of the feedback regarding this ability is being spouted by players who have never actually used the ability. Try it out sometime before writing a post about it.

[KaPe]

I tried it before in 5 mans. It was a slightly stronger Flash Heal that crippled your healing with anything else afterwards. There is no secret to this ability that somehow only you managed to realize. There is no hidden benefit which we're all ignoring that suddenly makes it superior to other level 100 options. Psychological or not, it's widely considered worst of the three and for a good reason.

I can't imagine raid boss fight where this would be more useful than other spells. There are occasional damage spikes on tanks which require bigger heals, but they don't conveniently leave your 8 seconds to recover from your debuff. There are other sources of damage to heal. Other healers don't have such drawbacks. You use tank cooldowns for those.

Instant cast and healing increase will make it somewhat superior in 6.1, but the debuff is still a huge drawback that cripples your performance afterwards. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I want Void Shift back. You could use it for some amazing saves, it had a major drawback in both hp sacrifice and huge cooldown, but it didn't break your other spells.

[Darkener]

Tried it on PTR and it's definitely better now. The huge heals it does is certainly worth having and it's not hard to work around the debuff for a few seconds.

[oderon]

If you cast it 3 times in a row you get about the same healing as 3 Flash Heals. This can be a nice combo to top someone. You can go PW:S, 3x SG. After that you can't really heal for 8 seconds but you can still move, Leap of Faith, Fear, Silence, Dispel etc.

This allows you to take Power Word: Solace instead of Surge of Light because you don't need those instant Flash Heals anymore. You can go more offensive then and even have less issues with mana.

If you can get a nice rotation going with Penance, PW: Solace, Smite as your offensive moves, you can somewhat counter the effects of SG with Archangel.

It's also worthwile in PvE on fights with predictable burst or with phases of high damage and phases of low damage. During the low damage phases you can heal with Atonement PW: Solace -> Penance -> Smite. When a high damage phase kicks in you pop Archangel and go for PW:S + 3x SG, which gives a LOT more burst healing compared to Penance/Flash Heal spam at the cost of reduced healing afterwards.

This sounds nice for Disc.
For Holy, you usually have hots from Renew/Mastery on many targets, and when you use SG you not only cripple your following heal casts but also cripple healing from those existing hots.
Also, Discs have very good absorbs and less attractive heals, and giving them cheap and large heal with little drawback may become very beneficial.
Holy on the other hand is already based on raw healing, and the healing from SG has to be really large to make it worth casting, and also without absorbs Holy has less time/room for mistakes. So it seems less beneficial to me.

It may be hard to make SG equally attractive to both specs. In my opinion, for sure it should not be a spell to top people off, but used only during emergency as the name suggests.

[Well]

Created a thread on official forums for the same purpose.

Link.