I'm starting to relate to nationalists (Friendly discussion, share your opinions)

[taliey]

I'm not talking just about immigration. What about temporary foreign workers? People who come to Canada for 24 months and never come back. Basically residents of another country who are given tax dollars to work low-skilled jobs and then never return to Canada again. I have no problem with immigrants who are willing to work, live in Canada, and create wealth but do they deserve special treatment over a Canadian citizen?

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Name an example, since your question is fairly broad. "Engaging" can mean anything.

Student exchange programs.

Scholarship grants.

Military equipment exchanges.

[Independent voter]

In the US we have been doing the immigrant thing for a long time. In good economic times nobody minds immigrants. In bad economic times everyone blames immigrants for lowering wages and stealing jobs.

Also Canada is lily white, all these people of color is jarring. They don't share the same culture.

My guess is the Canadian government is working hard to integrate these new immigrants.

[Invrlose]

Student exchange programs.

Scholarship grants.

Military equipment exchanges.

As if any of those are even remotely related to subsidizing wages of employees working for a PRIVATE company. Giving third world countries old weapons that we don't use anymore compared to paying people to undermine the economy... Hmm

[taliey]

In the US we have been doing the immigrant thing for a long time. In good economic times nobody minds immigrants. In bad economic times everyone blames immigrants for lowering wages and stealing jobs.

Also Canada is lily white, all these people of color is jarring. They don't share the same culture.

My guess is the Canadian government is working hard to integrate these new immigrants.

My guess is that the OP is angry that money spent on immigrants are essentially a sunk cost. That sunk cost is the opportunity cost to subsidize the taxpayer, but instead, it went to those immigrants.

There's more to immigrants than cost.

[Invrlose]

In the US we have been doing the immigrant thing for a long time. In good economic times nobody minds immigrants. In bad economic times everyone blames immigrants for lowering wages and stealing jobs.

Also Canada is lily white, all these people of color is jarring. They don't share the same culture.

My guess is the Canadian government is working hard to integrate these new immigrants.

I don't mind immigrants provided that they plan to stay in Canada, work for a fair wage (NOT paid for in taxes), create wealth, pay their own taxes, and I do not think that they should be given special treatment over a Canadian citizen (Reserved university seats, affirmative action, job quotas) etc

[taliey]

As if any of those are even remotely related to subsidizing wages of employees working for a PRIVATE company. Giving third world countries old weapons that we don't use anymore compared to paying people to undermine the economy... Hmm

Oh, so your problem is with corporate welfare? Welcome to my world.

[Invrlose]

My guess is that the OP is angry that money spent on immigrants are essentially a sunk cost. That sunk cost is the opportunity cost to subsidize the taxpayer, but instead, it went to those immigrants.

There's more to immigrants than cost.

You keep saying immigrant when I've already explained to you numerous times now a temporary foreign worker is not an immigrant. They come to canada and then leave after their contract is done never to return again. What kind of investment is that for Canada's future?

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Oh, so your problem is with corporate welfare? Welcome to my world.

Corporate welfare, affirmative action, reserved seats in unversities, reduced university rates, tax breaks for being born in another country, job quotas, why do they deserve this?

[taliey]

You keep saying immigrant when I've already explained to you numerous times now a temporary foreign worker is not an immigrant. They come to canada and then leave after their contract is done never to return again. What kind of investment is that for Canada's future?

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Corporate welfare, affirmative action, reserved seats in unversities, reduced university rates, tax breaks for being born in another country, job quotas, why do they deserve this?

It's an exchange program/temporary work visas. Not all of them are guaranteed to stay after their period is over. Are you suggesting that we just right up and stop something on the off chance that a minority (% wise) doesn't stay?

Because they're looking for a better life here, immigrating from third world countries? People from impoverished backgrounds do need help, and the environment is pretty stacked against them.

Especially since it isn't their native country.

EDIT

Also, on the corporate welfare thing. Let me add, another entity may have been complicit in that agreement (hint: not the third world country).

[Invrlose]

It's an exchange program/temporary work visas. Not all of them are guaranteed to stay after their period is over. Are you suggesting that we just right up and stop something on the off chance that a minority (% wise) doesn't stay?

Because they're looking for a better life here, immigrating from third world countries? People from impoverished backgrounds do need help, and the environment is pretty stacked against them.

Especially since it isn't their native country.

Actually no, you are wrong. Here in Saskatchewan these people are only allowed to work here for 24 months and then they have to return home. If they want to immigrate they can, but immigration and temporary foreign work is not the same thing. The majority of them %wise work here to send money back home and then move back home after.

Why is it my job to facilitate a better life for somebody who has not contributed anything to the country? And why do they deserve special treatment? Aren't they fine with receiving the same opportunities that I am? Or are we going to allow underqualified people in to University at reduced rates just because we feel like we owe them something?

[Dhurn]

I'm not talking just about immigration. What about temporary foreign workers? People who come to Canada for 24 months and never come back. Basically residents of another country who are given tax dollars to work low-skilled jobs and then never return to Canada again. I have no problem with immigrants who are willing to work, live in Canada, and create wealth but do they deserve special treatment over a Canadian citizen?

They still create value for the businesses they are working for, even if it's only temporary. At the very least, a temp worker who had a good experience may then attempt to move permanently.

"Special treatment" that you keep referring to is probably the only thing allowing these people to survive and send a little back to their families, which is of course a major reason why they're there in the first place. And yes if your government is assessing the population demographics and creating major subsidies to spur immigration, they "deserve" special treatment because the country clearly needs them. 2/3rds of your population growth in 2013-2014 is attributed to immigration.

There's always winners and loser in economics, in this case the native, working class citizens are losing, which is nothing new for the world. Nationalism isn't irrational from an individual standpoint.

[vetinari]

You want to know why?

Because Stalin.

[taliey]

Actually no, you are wrong. Here in Saskatchewan these people are only allowed to work here for 24 months and then they have to return home. If they want to immigrate they can, but immigration and temporary foreign work is not the same thing. The majority of them %wise work here to send money back home and then move back home after.

Why is it my job to facilitate a better life for somebody who has not contributed anything to the country? And why do they deserve special treatment? Aren't they fine with receiving the same opportunities that I am? Or are we going to allow underqualified people in to University at reduced rates just because we feel like we owe them something?

And how have they not contributed to your country? Working seems to not be enough now?

And the special treatment part, they are foreign nationals, so different rules apply to them. And if they were fine with the opportunities they were receiving, why did they just go up and leave? It's almost as if they had something else to do. Are they suddenly under the obligation to stay now?

And your final statement seems to be the beginning of an affirmative action tirade, so I'm not going there.

[Invrlose]

They still create value for the businesses they are working for, even if it's only temporary. It seems likely that there would be programs for temporary workers to become naturalized as well. Or at the very least, a temp worker who had a good experience may then attempt to move permanently.

"Special treatment" that you keep referring to is probably the only thing allowing these people to survive and send a little back to their families, which is of course a major reason why they're there in the first place. And yes if your government is assessing the population demographics and creating major subsidies to spur immigration, they "deserve" special treatment because the country clearly needs them. 2/3rds of your population growth in 2013-2014 is attributed to immigration.

There's always winners and loser in economics, in this case the native, working class citizens are losing, which is nothing new for the world. Nationalism isn't irrational from an individual standpoint.

What value do they create that a Canadian can not? The only reason they're here is because companies like Tim Hortons and Maple Leaf can get away with paying them less than minimum wage and increase profit margins.

And is that 2/3rds population growth being attributed to immigration coincidental? Or are they coming here because they realise they can suck this country dry without ever doing anything for it?

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And how have they not contributed to your country? Working seems to not be enough now?

And the special treatment part, they are foreign nationals, so different rules apply to them. And if they were fine with the opportunities they were receiving, why did they just go up and leave? It's almost as if they had something else to do. Are they suddenly under the obligation to stay now?

And your final statement seems to be the beginning of an affirmative action tirade, so I'm not going there.

What is your stance on affirmative action? Why do different rules apply to them? Why can't they be content with the same opportunities that I have if I'm so privileged?

[Notshauna]

Infrastructure. The average Canadian youth is becoming more and more educated and we're not growing fast enough in regards to our white collar jobs. We need to have temporary work vistas in order to prop up the blue collar sector and it's relatively low risk both for our companies and our government. Anyone can easily see the value of the schooling subsidies we preform and the socialized medi-care, but our policy to new immigrants is one that is less obvious. We have a choice where we have more and more kids with student loans forced into minimum wage jobs and/or blue collar work or we recruit from impoverished nations and get a willing work force.

It's the future of first world countries for the time being as without immigration we AREN'T sustainable.

[taliey]

What value do they create that a Canadian can not? The only reason they're here is because companies like Tim Hortons and Maple Leaf can get away with paying them less than minimum wage and increase profit margins.

And is that 2/3rds population growth being attributed to immigration coincidental? Or are they coming here because they realise they can suck this country dry without ever doing anything for it?

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What is your stance on affirmative action? Why do different rules apply to them? Why can't they be content with the same opportunities that I have if I'm so privileged?

And as I said, I'm not going there. Want to know my opinion, start a new topic.

As far as I'm concerned, this is pretty much an immigrant thread.

[Invrlose]

Infrastructure. The average Canadian youth is becoming more and more educated and we're not growing fast enough in regards to our white collar jobs. We need to have temporary work vistas in order to prop up the blue collar sector and it's relatively low risk both for our companies and our government. Anyone can easily see the value of the schooling subsidies we preform and the socialized medi-care, but our policy to new immigrants is one that is less obvious. We have a choice where we have more and more kids with student loans forced into minimum wage jobs and/or blue collar work or we recruit from impoverished nations and get a willing work force.

It's the future of first world countries for the time being as without immigration we AREN'T sustainable.

I'm fine with immigration, I've said that before. But why do they deserve special treatment like affirmative action? Subsidized wages? Tax breaks? Why does someone get a seat reserved just for them in a class when they've done nothing to earn it and might even be less qualified than someone else?

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And as I said, I'm not going there. Want to know my opinion, start a new topic.

As far as I'm concerned, this is pretty much an immigrant thread.

Why are you avoiding the question though? Are you in favour of affirmative action? Yes or no?

[taliey]

I'm fine with immigration, I've said that before. But why do they deserve special treatment like affirmative action? Subsidized wages? Tax breaks? Why does someone get a seat reserved just for them in a class when they've done nothing to earn it and might even be less qualified than someone else?

And I'm going to keep suggesting that perhaps businesses had a hand in negotiating these policies.

[Invrlose]

And I'm going to keep suggesting that perhaps businesses had a hand in negotiating these policies.

Ok, what about the seats reserved for them in a class despite their qualifications?

[taliey]

I'm fine with immigration, I've said that before. But why do they deserve special treatment like affirmative action? Subsidized wages? Tax breaks? Why does someone get a seat reserved just for them in a class when they've done nothing to earn it and might even be less qualified than someone else?

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Why are you avoiding the question though? Are you in favour of affirmative action? Yes or no?

Because your characterizations are wrong, and its not an appropriate topic to discuss affirmative action.

[Invrlose]

Because your characterizations are wrong, and its not an appropriate topic to discuss affirmative action.

That wasn't a yes or no answer. Do you support affirmative action? Yes or no?