Should Mythic become flexible?

[Deleted]

No.
If 10 couldn't stay, flex certainly can't be balanced. I'd rather see a balanced 10man come back before flex.

TL;DR - Scaling down mythic raids allows you the option to boot bads mid progression and recruit better players without halting your progress.

Recruit more people then. IF your roster is so tight that you can't afford to lose a person or two then you're running the guild wrong - it won't survive holidays or RL antics either.

[Sildor]

The solution to defeat a hard fight should not be to kick or invite more people. It should be about strategy and raid performance. So no.

[Dasani]

In a dream world Mythic would be cross realm and flexible to alleviate the hell that is running and maintaining a proper and successful raiding guild.

This is coming from someone who is 2 mythic bosses deep into foundry progression.

But for those who like to pretend they are better than others when they aren't, for whatever reason, they like to argue against it.

These are the same simple minded, inexperienced arguments I have seen since fucking VANILLA. Very first non-40man raid released in vanilla had people up in fucking arms about how it was making the game so casual and easy (although back then they didn't use the term casual because it hadn't blown up in popularity like it has in more recent years). They said 40-mans are the only REAL raids and anything less is an abomination in the sight of gods that must be smitten with righteous vengeance and furious anger.

Of course a small minority said it was great to have a raid that didn't require 40 people to go into. They were mostly mocked for how newbish they apparently were.

Burning crusade wasn't much different. Karazhan was insanely popular because it was 10-man. It was so easy for groups of friends or small guilds to get together and actually raid something because it didn't take as many people. Other raids reduced to 25 players was met with extreme rage from the community, again citing that if it isn't 40 man it isn't real raiding. I knew of guilds that still cleared karazhan every week until wrath came out just because it was a fun raid and easy to put a group together for to do. The 25-man content didn't really get that kind of love. The 25-man raiders moved up from tier to tier and didn't really go back to the younger tiers for any reason aside from attuning new members so that they could join you in the latest tier, but atunements didn't last very long honestly then they were done away with.

In wrath when you first had the option to raid 10 or 25 for anything, 10-man raids were treated like second class citizens. All the world first guilds only did 25-man because of this bizarre notion in the community that more people = better or more skill, when the reality was the opposite. Having more people to easily split up jobs and spread out more healers made things magnitudes easier in 90% of cases. But still, 10-man was always looked down on like an abomination. When paragon went 10-man people were shocked, stopped taking them seriously, treated them like crap too.

And now of course, we have no choice. Blizzard said "fuck you 10-man guilds!" with WOD and forced 20-man format on everyone. I don't understand why so many sheep think these larger raiding formats are "better" or more meaningful, but it's just too deeply ingrained in the mass stupidity of the playerbase at this point. It was understandable back in vanilla when the prior games like everquest had huge raids and then the 40-mans of vanilla were kinda modeled with that in mind and just kind of set the expectation.

But personally I think people need to kinda get over it and get with the times. 10-man has been a thing for a long time and that is still PLENTY of people to manage and deal with. It's enough people to have different tasks and jobs for people, it's enough to shuffle around some numbers like how many healers and the like, and so on. But it's just in the heads of most people that 10-man is meaningless, second class, and so on.

I say mythic should be flexible in size and just make it so when in doubt about mechanics or whatever, favor the larger raid. 10-man has always had an uphill battle and had to fight harder encounters 90% of the time anyway, so it isn't anything they aren't used to. Make the mechanics harder for smaller groups and easier for big ones to satisfy all the people who might say 10-man is too easy or their world firsts don't count or any of that other stupidity they like to spew.

I only raid the hardest difficulty available. Always have, always will. The lower difficulties are just there for a couple of clears to get some gear to go into the hard stuff. But I have always loved the smaller raids since I ever encountered them. The relationship with the other players is tighter and more meaningful, the personal responsibility is greater, the room for error is smaller, especially for things like battle reses where you get them much faster in a larger raid to correct people's mistakes. With less people, you can feel your total contribution a lot more as well. It's just a much better experience. Like so many others, my guild had to up it's roster to fit the new forced 20-man size and we do just fine with it. One of the top 30 to clear mythic highmaul, and doing multiple normal/heroic clears in the week before mythic opens for both highmaul and foundry. But despite our continued success, i'd still much rather be doing it in 10-man with the small group of people I consider my friends after all these years together. In 10-man we all stayed together the whole journey through. In 20-man, we've kicked, replaced, and recruited so many people I have lost track. Since warlords started, I think we went through at least 20 people occupying a handful of positions here and there. Most of the core team is still in tact, and my close knit group at the heart of that core, but the extras we've gone through is just staggering. I don't like it. Not a bit. I think the flex tech they use works really well and could be extended to mythic. Like I said, when in doubt, make it harder on smaller groups, that solves everything, all the pissy complaints.

Long story short,
10-man raiding feels more like a big band of heroes/adventurers working together and becoming friends along the way for some greater good
20-man+ raiding feels more like being a replaceable, interchangeable cog and a meaningless grunt in a bigger army where the things you do don't matter as much

Some people enjoy that "being in a big army" feel, and that is understandable, but I like the social aspect of 10-man to be coupled with the experience. I mean hell if you didn't care about the social aspect of the game at all, they could just design a single player version of this game using bots of varying levels of intelligence and you can recruit, replace, and trade them on your way to building the statistically superior roster with no care in the world for them as people.

[Spotnick]

Why am I suspecting the people asking for those are those able to kill 1, or maybe 2 mythic bosses only anyways?

No it should not be flexible. Your issue is not that, your issue is obviously the server "connections" are not doing their job and they should connect more servers so you'd find people.

[Baconeggcheese]

All the world first guilds only did 25-man because of this bizarre notion in the community that more people = better or more skill, when the reality was the opposite.

I've always viewed it as a relative thing.

in the larger sizes you have your core of people, those guys that are always in on progression who get all the important jobs and you can rely on to crutch the important mechanics so that the odd people who aren't as capable can do their thing.

In a smaller size those responsibilities are compressed, instead of needing 2.5 competent people to do a job you need 1 competent person to do that job.

The rest of the why to me always had to do with content design. You quite obviously can't design a 10 man encounter and a 25 man encounter the same way. Some kind of compromise needs to be made to the vision of the fight for either. The same way you obviously couldn't design a dungeon encounter the same way you design a raid encounter, the less people there are the more limited you are in what you can realistically throw at them. Whether or not they utilize that ability on an encounter to encounter basis is an entirely different thing, but there is absolutely less opportunity to do things with less people.

I feel like even with mythic being locked to one size they're still kind of in that trap because they have to design the encounters in such a way that they can remove mechanics and allow it to flex in lower difficulties.

Eh, what can you do.

[Dubalicious]

But for those who like to pretend they are better than others when they aren't, for whatever reason, they like to argue against it.

There are plenty of valid arguments against flex/x-realm/etc.

In wrath when you first had the option to raid 10 or 25 for anything, 10-man raids were treated like second class citizens. All the world first guilds only did 25-man because of this bizarre notion in the community that more people = better or more skill, when the reality was the opposite.

Wasn't 10-man content in WotLK intentionally easier than 25 man content? Your bias is beginning to show a bit here....

And now of course, we have no choice. Blizzard said "fuck you 10-man guilds!" with WOD and forced 20-man format on everyone.

And 25 mans were forced to cut players, basically losing some good friends/guildies along the way. The transition is easier, yes, but there is a downside to downsizing.

Holy cow I can't even finish reading the rest it's so biased towards 10-mans...

[Gnomorepuns]

I love that this is still going on.

It's simple. Cutting edge raiding is and should be one size. 20 is fine, but I'd like 25 personally, don't ask me why. If you complain you cant get enough people recruit. If you don't like it, then do heroic, it's not made for you.

One size = diverse mechanics instead of the bull scaling crap that forces blizz to make washed up and mechanics that we have alrdy seen. A set size lets them explore stuff they have not done before and make fights more epic.

Get 20 or go to heroic, done and done.

[Tekkommo]

No way, there is a very good reason why it is 20 man only.

[Glorn]

It shouldnt ever be flexible, we should never ever again see 10 man raids on highest difficulty, 10 man doesn't feel like raiding, 10 man is not real raiding, never was, never will be, making mythic 20 man is best blizz ever done. I don't care if you can't do it with friends, mythic is the highest difficulty, make your effort to organize 20 good raiders, if you can't do it, just raid heroic.

[Notdev]

Wasn't 10-man content in WotLK intentionally easier than 25 man content? Your bias is beginning to show a bit here....

Yes, this 100%. It was far lower tuned (even making up for the ilvl difference) and dropped lower ilvl gear.
One clear exception was OS3D because of the comp it required. HLK was arguable (in 10 man only gear of course) because it had so many comp requirements at lower buff levels. A hunter was almost required and the healing comp almost *had* to be Holy Pally/Disc Priest.

[azurrei]

And now of course, we have no choice. Blizzard said "fuck you 10-man guilds!" with WOD and forced 20-man format on everyone. I don't understand why so many sheep think these larger raiding formats are "better" or more meaningful, but it's just too deeply ingrained in the mass stupidity of the playerbase at this point. It was understandable back in vanilla when the prior games like everquest had huge raids and then the 40-mans of vanilla were kinda modeled with that in mind and just kind of set the expectation.

It has nothing to do with people being sheep (or maybe it does...though the sheep are not who you speak of.) It would be difficult to continue to come up with interesting, meaningful encounters when you have 11 different classes with many different strengths/weakness coupled with a variety of unique abilities when you are limited to just 10 players. 20 players allows them the freedom to design some really cool stuff that would be neutered or out right impossible to do with just 10 players. I understand there are people like you who prefer smaller raid sizes - you are entitled to your opinion (and you are welcome to go over to FF14 who has 8 man dungeons...err, raids) but I will always view 10 mans as an underwhelming raid size that many flocked to simply because it was easier to maintain and control (you want to talk about sheep??) and in many cases were a lot easier than the 25-man versions (though recent raids that was not the case as often.)

[Bullarkie]

I would definitely like to see cross realm mythic so I can pug it later in the expansion.

[leftysix]

I think it would get further unbalanced if it was Flex. I do like the idea of having a 10 man version though.

[Arbs]

No it removes the reason to even have Mythic in the first place, it is suppose to stay a static 20 man & nothing else. 10 man is dead.

[Gnomorepuns]

No it removes the reason to even have Mythic in the first place, it is suppose to stay a static 20 man & nothing else. 10 man is dead.

As it should be at the top raiding level.

[Deleted]

Didn't pay attention and voted Yes - derp. No, Mythic is a fixed raid size for a reason - its much easier to tune exactly the way they want it.

I voted Yes thinking you were talking about cross server, which is what I'd actually want to see. Not only could some good PuGs do some of the bosses later in a patch's lifespan, but I could also join Mythic guilds without having to transfer servers, which I'm not willing to do.