nerfing blackhand...

[Tehterokkar]

On heroic? Genuinely asking since I checked the armories and only saw a normal kill and that applied to your guildleader too (and that was today, not yesterday at that).

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not a ranged dps I wasn't swapping to them anyway, but it's absolutely the difference between 'second impale kills them' and 'you now have to do like 2.5 million more damage'

We went Normal yesterday to finish off the alt run people did on Sunday(That's where the normal kill is from). But yes, on Heroic we can manage to kill Siege before 2nd MfD if everyone focuses it, but of course I, as the RL, have to call off DPS at like 40% to wait for MfD.

[Dracodraco]

We went Normal yesterday to finish off the alt run people did on Sunday(That's where the normal kill is from). But yes, on Heroic we can manage to kill Siege before 2nd MfD if everyone focuses it, but of course I, as the RL, have to call off DPS at like 40% to wait for MfD.

Can confirm that we did the same a few times (blowing up siege before second MFD). It all depends on bombs - they still apply slagged to the machine (increasing it's damage taken by 100%), AND they remove the plating from the machine aswell. If you manage to run it over a bomb before first marked for death, those two will instantly cut off 50% of it's hp, and each subsequent bomb you run over is another 8% or so. Hitting 5x bombs with one of them before first marked for death = a few executes (SW, kill shot etc) and it falls over.

[Libertarian]

They nerf was pretty significant. We did a heroic clear real quick before mythic. No issues last phase bringing in more people with a non optimal comp and killed in 6:30.

[Count Zero]

I think the nerf was slightly overdone. Maybe no health change but a 10-15% reduction in smash damage would have been fine.

I don't think it was completely out of line tho.

[Jigatwat]

I cannot decide if I want to believe that a nerf was justified or not. On one hand I feel like it was possible to kill pre-nerf therefor once Heroic guilds get heroic gear they will be able to kill it while still having the trouble that those in mythic gear had during the week one push so a nerf isn't needed. On the other hand I feel like blizzard realizes that this isn't the "highest" difficulty and wants the guilds that are trying to clear it to be able to without an over the top nerf. This is by no means a nerf that will make or break a kill if people are failing to mechanics they are still not going to kill the boss.

/end rambling

[Dasani]

I killed it "pre-nerf" and I think it needed a good nerfing.

The fight is very overtuned. And I don't mean overtuned in that it was impossible, because clearly it was not impossible, but the fact a mythic guild with all mythic highmaul guild struggled a bit to down this boss kinda proves that the shit is a lot harder than it should be. Even in full heroic foundry gear your ilevel still wouldn't be as high as some of the ilevels of people having issues downing this boss. People who had cleared all the highmaul mythic content very quickly, and all the heroic/mythic content in SoO before that in a fast pace as well.

The fight was too hard for what it was. Anyone disputing that is woefully ignorant.

In a way it was kind of like Mythic butcher. The fight it's self is incredibly easy. Mechanics-wise is almost laughable. But it's such an extremely hard gear check that it was murderous to kill for the first time unless you do it months after highmaul came out and already had tons of gear.

Blackhand mechanics are likewise very simple and straightforward. But the damage the raid takes and the dps needed to kill him in the last phase before you run out of room is pretty gnarly. It's much harder than it should be for just a heroic boss. I guess blizzard got butthurt that so many guilds were doing heroic imperator with like a 2/3 healer/dps ratio to make it easier so they wanted to make blackhand in such a way that he dick slaps anyone who doesn't bog the raid down with dps while at the same time having very high raid damage going out.

There's always the casuals who know nothing saying "lol cant kill first night, must be overtuned rite?" being ignorant and facetious as they like to be, but when you've raided for the past 10 years it's pretty easy to spot a boss that is overtuned. Especially now with all the different difficulty levels, if you steamroll and 1 shot and 2 shot every boss then hit one you wipe on 12 times, even when you are wearing gear drastically superior to what you can even obtain from that same raid, something is wrong.

[dr_AllCOM3]

P3: Do you let everyone get kicked back by smash or just a few ppl and drag the boss further along the edge?

[Deleted]

P3: Do you let everyone get kicked back by smash or just a few ppl and drag the boss further along the edge?

We stacked everyone for more manageable healing.

[Sprucelee]

P3: Do you let everyone get kicked back by smash or just a few ppl and drag the boss further along the edge?

Everyone who is not slagged (i.e. whoever did not get a bomb right before). Everyone run to the other side, re-group, repeat. Then there should be two "sides" left that are kinda clear from slag, go into one, repeat. Then go to the last, tank solos.

Basically you make a cross pattern.

[Deleted]

Killed him twice in pugs pre-nerf, wasnt that hard. I aint even on a raid team, and still i lead a pug to 3 x 5% attempts.
Its a great and fun fight, which didnt really need the nerf, compared to unforgiving bosses of the past, where phase 1 mistakes couldnt even be tolerated.
I am strickly talking about normal mode, not tried heroic mode.

I prefer bosses that take more tactics and planning, and take atleast a month to kill. Give me BWL or Karazhan back anytime.
Killing endboss in 10 man raid instance first week? Seems way undertuned. Going to be boored of BRF in a month or so.
Good instance though, just too walkthrough'iss.

[Nerfarien]

Being one of the players who killed HC pre-nerf I am more RELIEVED than anything.
The encounter is designed to punish mongoloids unable to open their eyes and with these changes it will be at least a bit easier.
Also it is a much needed help for consecutive farm kills, so I do not see your point.

[KaPe]

Killed him twice in pugs pre-nerf, wasnt that hard. I aint even on a raid team, and still i lead a pug to 3 x 5% attempts.
Its a great and fun fight, which didnt really need the nerf, compared to unforgiving bosses of the past, where phase 1 mistakes couldnt even be tolerated.
I am strickly talking about normal mode, not tried heroic mode.

Normal mode is the one that could be outgeared - unless your average ilvl actually was 665. You know, the item level that actually drops there. Do try heroic, some things change and become more dangerous, plus even with 680+ it doesn't feel like outgearing.

Also, you want your "BWL" or "Karazhan", while raiding second lowest difficulty in Pug. You had heroic available last week. Mythic is open right now. The option is there, you just don't use it, preferring to stay in your comfort zone while complaining about stuff being "too easy".

[Deleted]

Normal mode is the one that could be outgeared - unless your average ilvl actually was 665. You know, the item level that actually drops there. Do try heroic, some things change and become more dangerous, plus even with 680+ it doesn't feel like outgearing.

Also, you want your "BWL" or "Karazhan", while raiding second lowest difficulty in Pug. You had heroic available last week. Mythic is open right now. The option is there, you just don't use it, preferring to stay in your comfort zone while complaining about stuff being "too easy".

Exactly. People who HAVE ACTUALLY KILLED him on Heroic mode know that it needed this nerf. Normal PuGs and claiming it was too easy without heroic experience...please.

[Deleted]

Being one of the players who killed HC pre-nerf I am more RELIEVED than anything.
The encounter is designed to punish mongoloids unable to open their eyes and with these changes it will be at least a bit easier.
Also it is a much needed help for consecutive farm kills, so I do not see your point.

Honestly, I don't agree. The fight isn't hard, it was just practice which was needed. Once we got it down, we got it soon down after. The tuning with breakpoints was ridiculous though.