Help Blizzard redesign rogue class

[ro9ue]

I want a level 100 talent that turns us into a ranged dps Dark Ranger that can equip a bow.

Fuck balance.


Also in general I want more, interesting poison options.

[ymirsson]

Oh no killing spree got me into fire and killed me.. Guess what u pressed the button, u killed urself not KS, how about u plan ahead and use cds when u know u can, and on some bosses that might not make it so that u can allways ks on cd etc, whats so bad about that?

This is so wrong on so many levels.

KS is one of 3 single buttons to press that can kill you: Killing Spree, Death from above, the "W" key.
That's 2 rogue abilities and one for all.

[Deleted]

...

Very nice ideas for combat. I only fear that in your suggestion there's too much focus on haste, which would then be much more valuable than any other secondary. Also I'm a bit afraid about scaling, since Combat usually suffers that from start of an expansion, it's energy starved, by the end of the expansion, it's dipping in wasted energy because you can't spend it fast enough.

I think that this is one of the core mechanics of the class that should be changed somehow in order to provide enough energy for you too keep steady pace even with low gear while still rewarding higher haste values with more power, as you'd expect in any RPG.

[NorthWay]

Baseline Shadowstep, Shuriken Toss, Deadly Throw, Anticipation.
Change Anticipation to work for all CP using abilities equally.

To give each spec more personality
Assassination: 100% chance to apply poisons. Make poisons a bigger part of the damage. Can use 2 non-lethal poisons.
Subtlety: Boost bleed mechanics a lot. Make bleed the bigger part of damage. Shadowstep ignores roots. Improved stealth/detection.
Combat: Give back armor penetration effects, dodge and parry boosts/talents, and add option for a buckler.

For a poison class there are way too few options. It should be possible to come up with a lot more debuf types. Mana burn style needs to come back.
Poisons need to get back to being a weapon enchant to let better rogues than me swap weapons - that is our stance dancing.

[Deleted]

Very nice ideas for combat. I only fear that in your suggestion there's too much focus on haste, which would then be much more valuable than any other secondary.

The idea was to maintain haste as the most valuable secondary, yeah. However, my ideas (I hope) have made it slightly less important. Losing so much passive damage (the section that haste currently buffs the most) would make sure that it only really has an interaction with my idea for finishing moves. Energy regeneration, through my change to Combat Potency, should be smoother. Although I'm no wizard with numbers, I think mastery might be more valued if it interacted with Insight.

[Symphonic]

I like the idea of more non lethal poisons. A non lethal poison that gave us energy back would be amazing!

[Deleted]

Get Combat be playable with daggers, if spec switching remains so mandatory to exist on DPS.
Either by reusing the mechanism available on the Cata legendary daggers or by adding Backstab (or, even better, Dispatch) available for combat to decently build CP with a dagger.

[Spazzrogue]

i think the lvl 30 talents is a pretty good idea. that way we can play whatever spec we want insted of having to play a certain spec for that perk. it will solve the gearing issue also having different sets and weapons for different specs.

[unixtreme]

The only thing rogues need is higher numbers, it´s completely absurd how blizzard have left the class out in the dark and I can still see recent buffs to FERAL druids (wtf).

The problem is mainly finishers, finishers used to be big hitting abilities, now they are just a cheaper/slightly better sinister strike/mutilate/ambush, and that of course makes Death from Above a not-so-good talent, because you have to build specifically around it to see a big number, and will still never be any good on PvE compared to what a lvl 100 tier talent should be.

Blizzard doesn't care, they are suffering from a lot of what devs on other games are suffering as well, which is someone at the dev team hating stealth assassins or just fear to people crying "omg rogues are op" just because someone corpsecamped them in silithus. All online games with high population are doing the same, rendering stealth assassins useless because the mass "IE kids" cry about how unfair it is.

[Naiattavain]

i tried this already and the billing department didn't notice my subscription dropped a little over a year not even an email; stone cold man.

[Deleted]

The only thing rogues need is higher numbers.

I disagree. The numbers for rogues, at least at the moment, are not that bad, of course if you always play the top spec for the encounter you are doing. The problem is that you need to switch from fight to fight in order to stay competitive. In my book, any spec should be viable and optimal specs should give you a bit of an edge over those dps that didn't switch to their respective optimal niche specs.

[Deleted]

I think that the basic thing to change would be our talent system, that's a bit lacking atm to put it mildly.

I'd very much like to hear your thoughts and start a discussion in order to do the job that Blizzard should have done like two expansions before.

Its great that you have taken a good look at the talent system and u can come up with some decent observations and ideas... i just think the class needs far more than a talent tree overhaul.

Most proposals here are just the details, i think the bigger picture needs to be addressed before working on details.

I would argue that the class needs to be completely overhauled with the main changes to the 3 current specs. Any of the QQing on the forums is surrounded by the issue that the 3 trees are far too similiar. I propose changing the 3 specs so theyre more unique, interesting and FUN.

Proposed Rogue spec changes

I propose deleting Assassination and adding the Assass 'gameplay and philosophy' into Subtlety. That means within the Sub tree its possible to spec into an Assassination Master-poisoner. Basically giving u the interesting options to build a poison based stealthy killer or a mobile superfast traditional Sub. Choices within one tree. Strong Vanish, weak Dodge. Strong disengage but weak when u get hold of him. Think Ninja.

Redefine Combat as a 'stand in your face grizzled veteran fighter'. Make this tree an obvious battlehardened meat-head big weapon dual-wielding nasty *bleep* *bleep*. This guy can use 2x Axe/Mace/Sword and daggers arent much use to him. Viable slow/slow weapons. Strong Dodge, weak Vanish. Weak disengage but strong to stand toe to toe. This guy isnt a warrior, isnt a trained soldier, hes the dirty streetfighter from the rough end of town. Think the guy at the end of the bar with all the scars down his face u know u shouldnt mess with.

The last spec should be a ranged Rogue imo. He should be able to use the existing Bows and Guns in the game although it would be awesome to introduce pistols. My experience with GW2 pistol thief proves to me that Blizz are missing a trick here. Its fun as hell having vanish and stealth as a ranged class and the skill potential makes this idea extremely worth looking at. Think Hunter without the Pet, all other ranged classes (except SPriest) has a pet.

Obviously all trees use stealth but obviously stealth being most powerful, with most buffs, for the Sub tree. Best heals and dodge on Combat. Ranged will need some thought but shouldnt be too difficult to balance fairly.

[SynergyDarkstar]

I like the idea of more non lethal poisons. A non lethal poison that gave us energy back would be amazing!

Ehh, I don't like that because that would essentially be a Lethal (read: DPS increasing) poison.

It would be interesting to have non-lethals that had some different shiv effects, even with the same main effect as Crippling. And there's a couple talents that would be prime contenders for replacement:
Nerve Gas: Passive - 50% slow, Shiv: Target's damage is reduced by 50% for X seconds, Shiv CD increased by Y.
Something similar for Prey on the Weak

I think Shiv, especially how it interacts w/ out poisons, is a cool ability and it doesn't get as much play in PvE, outside of dispelling enrages if people are being lazy.

[Goron24]

15 sec CD on BoS... GTFO. Just no, that would make it waaaaaay too easy to just perpetually root rogues.

On topic I want cold blooded back! I loved that talent