"Restorative Justice" - will we ever see it in America?

[Vizardlorde]

Can you elaborate on that? Why is it an industry? Who makes money out of it?

The owner obviously.

[Lenonis]

I think it might also be important to differentiate criminals from people who are mentally ill and commit crimes.

People who are truly insane or psychopaths or whatever will not benefit (much) from this sort of revised prison system until their illness is dealt with.

[Rukh]

us prisons are a for profit institution. repeat offenders are ensuring business. why do you hate businesses?

[PIsForPhuck]

I think it might also be important to differentiate criminals from people who are mentally ill and commit crimes.

People who are truly insane or psychopaths or whatever will not benefit (much) from this sort of revised prison system until their illness is dealt with.

I would think that, in such a system, their illness would be identified and dealt with.

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If this was tried tomorrow in the US, a lot of death and destruction and escaped criminals would be the result. America has somewhat of a unique set of criminals with a unique culture about them.

Sure, it'd be difficult to just change to this overnight. I was thinking more of a long-term working-towards-this goal.

[LilSaihah]

I'm a bit skeptical of the results of such a method. I think if they're getting rehabilitated by the time they're in prison, it might be a bit late. Maybe this'll get results, though, who knows.

Justice has nothing at all to do with suffering.

If a dog got scared and bit you, your response would be to beat the dog, to make it 'suffer'. Rather than spend the time to better socialize the animal so that it doesn't resort to biting at all. I hate to make the comparison between a criminal and a dog, but that's the closest analogy I could think of.

I would think that the intent behind beating the dog would be that the dog would associate biting you with getting beaten. It will, therefore, stop biting you so that you stop beating it.

I think I read somewhere that this doesn't actually work, though it depends on the animals. Cats will stop negative behavior if you disassociate with them when they act inappropriately, but hitting them won't work. I'm not a dog expert.

[Deleted]

If this was tried tomorrow in the US, a lot of death and destruction and escaped criminals would be the result. America has somewhat of a unique set of criminals with a unique culture about them.

you reap what you sow.

criminals aren't born, they are made. And who made the criminals in the US prisons, hm?

Right! Give them a stocked kitchen and friendship if they rape and butcher your 8 year old??! Where's the justice?!

Appeal to emotion. Otsu!



I'm not talking about letting the "incurable" go free, but if you can reform the rest (and try to get back some of the cost for the incurables incarceration), why not?
Revenge never had any purpose, and never solved things. Revenge not even quells the hatred in the hearts of the people who call for it. Revenge is destructive and has NO! PART! IN! JUSTICE! WHATSOEVER!

[nightfalls]

The incarceration rate has little to do with prison systems and more to do with whatever other things America is doing right and wrong.

Taking immigrants, sad to say, increases your crime rate. Especially refugees from other nations, etc. It's also, arguably, the "right" thing to do as it provides those from poor areas with opportunity, but of course, when you welcome the tired/hungry, the bad apples who turn to crime are likely to come in with the along good who contribute to society instead to work their way out of poverty.

Bad things include things like the "War on Drugs" as mentioned, or criminalizing minor offenses/etc. that should be dealt with by fines, probation/community service, and/or legalization. But again, that has little to do with our prison system for violent criminals, which society needs protection from.

Finally, bad factors such as racism/discrimination play in, and those are indeed problems which America needs to solve... Though I guess it's easy to not have racism and have the "right" to bash on other nations that deal with it, when your country is 96% ethnic Norwegians.

[PIsForPhuck]

I'm a bit skeptical of the results of such a method. I think if they're getting rehabilitated by the time they're in prison, it might be a bit late. Maybe this'll get results, though, who knows.



I would think that the intent behind beating the dog would be that the dog would associate biting you with getting beaten. It will, therefore, stop biting you so that you stop beating it.

I think I read somewhere that this doesn't actually work, though it depends on the animals. Cats will stop negative behavior if you disassociate with them when they act inappropriately, but hitting them won't work. I'm not a dog expert.

However it eventually turns out in Norway (and it seems to be working - it's been years), it's pretty obvious the US system is a total fail.

[THE Bigzoman]

No.

Too many people are hooked on the idea that, once you commit a crime, that you should either rot in prison, die, or be stripped of ways to have an above average living for the rest of your life.

[Independent voter]

If you want to know why there are so many Americans in jail. Look up "mandatory minimums".

If you want to know why there are "mandatory minimums" look up voters and politicians who want to get elected.

[NewOrleansTrolley]

Scandinavian jurisprudence is one of those unique systems that can never be replicated elsewhere. So, probably not.

[Torais]

It sickens me to see that being called justice. They are still alive and aren't even suffering. How is that at all justice? They are criminals and enemies of the community. Every bit of mercy given to them is an affront to justice and social order. Hang them all and be done with it.

...And right here is your problem. 200+ years of culture that cannot see the difference between "Justice" and "Revenge".

[Ehrenpanzer]

I hope it comes about.

Why is it lacking? Because prison in the US is an industry. Instead of a non-profit rehabilitation center.

A few other reasons as well, but that is a big one.

Oh sure....just a few minor details like race wars...drug cartels and religion..but sure, its mostly because the prison system is an industry... /eyeroll

Also, I'll buy into the "restorative justice" hippie shit, when murderers can restore victims to life, rapists can undo the rape and drug lords can undo the damage to society their drug have caused... Until such a time, they can rot in fucking prison like animals for all I care...the prison system is WAY too lenient on offenders then it should be (at least for serious crimes.. Im all for trying rehab for those in for minor crimes, theft etc...)

[PIsForPhuck]

If you want to know why there are so many Americans in jail. Look up "mandatory minimums".

If you want to know why there are "mandatory minimums" look up voters and politicians who want to get elected.

I know what both mean, but for future reference, you probably shouldn't come into a conversational topic with a comment that amounts to "google it".

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Oh sure....just a few minor details like race wars...drug cartels and religion..but sure, its mostly because the prison system is an industry... /eyeroll

US incarceration rates are still much higher than other countries with diverse cultural groups, like the UK.

As of year-end 2012 the USA rate was 920 adults incarcerated in prisons and jails per 100,000 population. At year-end 2007 the United States had less than 5% of the world's population and 23.4% of the world's prison and jail population (adult inmates).

By comparison the incarceration rate in England and Wales in October 2011 was 155 people imprisoned per 100,000 residents

[Independent voter]

Another part of the answer is "three strikes and your out" laws. You don't have to look that up but if you do, look at how these laws got enacted.

[Deleted]

Oh sure....just a few minor details like race wars...drug cartels and religion..but sure, its mostly because the prison system is an industry... /eyeroll

Also, I'll buy into the "restorative justice" hippie shit, when murderers can restore victims to life, rapists can undo the rape and drug lords can undo the damage to society their drug have caused... Until such a time, they can rot in fucking prison like animals for all I care...the prison system is WAY too lenient on offenders then it should be (at least for serious crimes.. Im all for trying rehab for those in for minor crimes, theft etc...)

The problem is you (and likeminded people). You are engineering your own reoffenders. Please don't come crying when they hatch.

[Deleted]

Another part of the answer is "three strikes and your out" laws. You don't have to look that up but if you do, look at how these laws got enacted.

Thats why you should be glad that your favorite sport is not football.

[Deleted]

20% is for all penalties, for those who go to prison it's 45%.

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The problem is you (and likeminded people). You are engineering your own reoffenders. Please don't come crying when they hatch.

Okay, would you let someone like Breivik out?

[Ehrenpanzer]

The problem is you (and likeminded people). You are engineering your own reoffenders. Please don't come crying when they hatch.

No...the problem is bleeding heart idiots like you (and likeminded people).

Can you bring someones murdered wife back?
Can you undo a rape?
Both cause a LIFETIME of mental and physical trauma for those affected...but clearly the most important thing here is the poor offender...how dare we insist that someone who behaves like an animal get locked away for life, so they cant cause that kind of trauma on other people....you are a fucking idiot, and I hope something like that happens to you, or your family and then we'll see what you say when Joe offender is released 5 years later

Infracted

[Independent voter]

Minimal sentencing, stricter punishment for drug crimes, etc, etc, are all championed by industries that directly profit from these laws. You take profit way from the equation, suddenly the conflict of interest goes away. And you have less people in prison.

That's not true at all. Let me tell you what happened.

Back in the 80's and 90's there was a spike in crime. Voters became concerned and politicians always looking for an in with voters seized on the issue and they started proposing more and more strict laws. Soon politicians were competing with each other to see who could be the toughest on crime.

News sources started reporting crimes as though they were happening right in your backyard even though they happened a thousand miles away.

The initiative process that many Western states have went to work. Soon voters introduced legislation and made into law very strict laws like "mandatory minimums" and "three strikes and you're out" laws.

Now judges no longer sentence criminals like they did in the old days, they consult a chart and hand out however many years it says to.

Voters used the initiative process, again the most democratic system in the world, to vote out judges they saw as weak on crime.

So who is to blame? It is us. Well us voters at least.