Help with Healing Done

[Pur1tas]

Hey guys,
So I compared my logs to those of other resto shamans (top one ofc.) in order to figure out why I am always dead last on the meters. The problem is all the logs I find they always play with a heal less for similar numbers or even more people. I know we overheal the boss and the fact that we have a druid and two discs is probably harming my Healing by a lot. So I am just going to ask if you guys think I am doing something increadibly wrong.

Note: I know I am using Glyph of riptide and I think I am going to continue, as somehow I just feel it gets a lot more done than unglyphed riptide. It just gives me more healing if I have riptide on 15 targets ticking away than on 3 at a time with a stronger initial heal. This might be because of our setup though


https://www. warcraftlogs.com/reports/HbrMvkVFJRQCpzPN#type=healing&fight=25

Just take a look and give me your thoughts.

Thanks in advance

[rheeah]

To keep Riptide on 15 targets, you need 25% Haste, and it requires you cast Riptide on EVERY GCD.

If you are casting nothing except your weakest heal (self-nerfed to be even weaker by the glyph), is it surprising that you don't do much healing?

The base heal of Riptide (unglyphed, including direct and HoT) is about 5.04/spellpower/GCD. That's assuming no overheal, of course. Riptide is a high efficiency, low-throughput spell.

If glyphed, this drops to 3.66/spellpower/GCD.

Healing Wave and Healing Surge both have base heal amounts of 5.5/spellpower/cast, with the cast time of HW (another high-efficiency, low-throughput spell) typically reduced to 1.33 GCD's by Tidal Waves. So 4.14/spellpower/GCD. Unglyphed Riptide is better throughput AND slightly better efficiency (HPM) than HW (and provides Tidal Waves), which is why Riptide should normally be used on c/d.

But GLYPHED Riptide is worse throughput and slightly worse efficiency than HW (with Tidal Waves). That is the premium Shaman must pay for a spammable instant-cast heal - the heal sucks. Badly. (Compare to Druids and Priests, whose PRIMARY throughput spells are spammable and instant cast...but I digress). Any time you have the choice between casting a glyphed Riptide or a Tidal-Waved HW, you should choose the HW.

Now compare to Chain Heal buffed with High Tide on a Riptided target (but ignoring any bonus jumps). That lands for 12.2/spellpower/(1.67 GCD), or 7.31/spellpower/GCD; over twice the throughput (HPS) of a glyphed Riptide, but only about 15% less mana-efficient than an unglyphed Riptide!

We can look at this another way; suppose (which I seriously doubt) you somehow manage to have "riptide on 15 targets ticking away". What will be your HPS?

Well, you will be casting 15 glyphed Riptides every 18 seconds, which equals 3.05*spellpower in HPS.

What if I just cast (unglyphed) Riptide+HW+HW every five seconds? My HPS will be 3.2*spellpower - 5% better than the unglyphed Riptide spam. Thus even the most brain-dead, low throughput spell selection still outperforms unglyphed Riptide spam.

The only reason I can see to use the Glyph of Riptide is if you have to move so much that you can't even equal that, or maybe in gimmicky fights like Malkorok or Tortos Heroic where keeping shields topped off at all times is necessary.

Although I don't use it, I think Echo of the Elements (which I guess will soon be nerfed into uselessness by 6.1) is a much better choice for casting more Riptides going without shooting yourself in the foot.

But you should remember, there are high-throughput (Healing Surge, Chain Heal) and low-throughput (HW, Riptide, HR) spells; you should be trying to cast as many high-throughput heals as your mana allows, and using the higher efficiency spells as fillers.

[Pur1tas]

To keep Riptide on 15 targets, you need 25% Haste, and it requires you cast Riptide on EVERY GCD.

If you are casting nothing except your weakest heal (self-nerfed to be even weaker by the glyph), is it surprising that you don't do much healing?

The base heal of Riptide (unglyphed, including direct and HoT) is about 5.04/spellpower/GCD. That's assuming no overheal, of course. Riptide is a high efficiency, low-throughput spell.

If glyphed, this drops to 3.66/spellpower/GCD.

Healing Wave and Healing Surge both have base heal amounts of 5.5/spellpower/cast, with the cast time of HW (another high-efficiency, low-throughput spell) typically reduced to 1.33 GCD's by Tidal Waves. So 4.14/spellpower/GCD. Unglyphed Riptide is better throughput AND slightly better efficiency (HPM) than HW (and provides Tidal Waves), which is why Riptide should normally be used on c/d.

But GLYPHED Riptide is worse throughput and slightly worse efficiency than HW (with Tidal Waves). That is the premium Shaman must pay for a spammable instant-cast heal - the heal sucks. Badly. (Compare to Druids and Priests, whose PRIMARY throughput spells are spammable and instant cast...but I digress). Any time you have the choice between casting a glyphed Riptide or a Tidal-Waved HW, you should choose the HW.

Now compare to Chain Heal buffed with High Tide on a Riptided target (but ignoring any bonus jumps). That lands for 12.2/spellpower/(1.67 GCD), or 7.31/spellpower/GCD; over twice the throughput (HPS) of a glyphed Riptide, but only about 15% less mana-efficient than an unglyphed Riptide!

We can look at this another way; suppose (which I seriously doubt) you somehow manage to have "riptide on 15 targets ticking away". What will be your HPS?

Well, you will be casting 15 glyphed Riptides every 18 seconds, which equals 3.05*spellpower in HPS.

What if I just cast (unglyphed) Riptide+HW+HW every five seconds? My HPS will be 3.2*spellpower - 5% better than the unglyphed Riptide spam. Thus even the most brain-dead, low throughput spell selection still outperforms unglyphed Riptide spam.

The only reason I can see to use the Glyph of Riptide is if you have to move so much that you can't even equal that, or maybe in gimmicky fights like Malkorok or Tortos Heroic where keeping shields topped off at all times is necessary.

Although I don't use it, I think Echo of the Elements (which I guess will soon be nerfed into uselessness by 6.1) is a much better choice for casting more Riptides going without shooting yourself in the foot.

But you should remember, there are high-throughput (Healing Surge, Chain Heal) and low-throughput (HW, Riptide, HR) spells; you should be trying to cast as many high-throughput heals as your mana allows, and using the higher efficiency spells as fillers.

Yeah I know that in theory not glyphing riptide is a lot better but talking about the healsetup we are playing with I have no way to get anything out of the initial riptide healing done. People are mostly topped of because as I said with 2 discs and a druid in raid small dmgs are usually just getting absorbed or ticked away imediately. I know we overheal the bosses and this is the only reason I use glyphed riptide. I can spread riptides when I would otherwise be doing absolutely nothing and just try to get some good chainheals of whene there is actually dmg incomming.

I thank you for the analysis of riptide but I know that already and this is 100% true, if you actually get to heal stuff with it. But as I said I tried to play with unglyphed riptide in our raid and the initial heal was almost always pure overheal. So instead of reducing the amounts of Riptide I have going (you right its probably not 15 but more like 6-8 at once) I rather have it on as many targets as possible and maximise my chainheal output that way, giving me the flexibility to choose between different targets to heal.

The question I have is rather about me missplaying something completely (if you can see anything from the logs) or if it is just due to our healsetup that I come in dead last.

[Alltat]

There are two resto shamans in that raid, but I'll assume you're Archiatra since that's the only one healing on the fight you linked? If so, your healing done is low for the usual two reason: your uptimes on passive heals are low and you're not using your big cooldowns as often or efficiently as you could have.

- Healing Stream Totem does a lot of healing per GCD spent and should be used as soon as it's off cooldown. You could use it twice as often.
- Healing Rain should always be down unless you're about to move. Your uptime on Gruul was 28%, despite all the stacking. Use it more.
- Earth Shield uptime was good. Generally above 90%, though you did forget to reapply it at times. Make sure to refresh it before intense phases.
- Elemental Blast use is sporadic, resulting in a low uptime on the spirit buff. On Thogar you went minutes without casting it, despite being low on mana.

- Healing Tide Totem use was inconsistent. On some fights you use it well, but on Darmac you waited 7-8 minutes before using it. That's two casts wasted.
- Ascendance use was lacking. You seem to use it once per fight, even when you could easily have used it 2-3 times. Plan when to use it.
- Spiritwalker's Grace use looks good overall. A lot of people forget they even have it.
- Spirit Link Totem seems all-or-nothing. You used it on both splits for Thogar, but not at all on Gruul or twins. You could use it a lot more.


Overall the "passive" heals (HST, HR, ES) do considerably more healing per casting time than direct heals (CH, HW, HS), so using them when they're available should be your top priority unless someone is about to die. Casting them just before damage starts to come also often means no one gets so low that you can't afford to refresh them. As for major cooldowns, don't save them unless you're saving them for something specific happening in the next three minutes. Beastlord Darmac is a good example of a fight where you can use your cooldowns several times during the fight to help keep the raid stable, and still have them all available again for the final phase.

Note: I know I am using Glyph of riptide and I think I am going to continue, as somehow I just feel it gets a lot more done than unglyphed riptide. It just gives me more healing if I have riptide on 15 targets ticking away than on 3 at a time with a stronger initial heal. This might be because of our setup though

Then be aware that while Glyph of Riptide isn't bad, trying to blanket the raid with HoTs as a shaman is not a serious strategy. It works if you want to mess around in LFR and the occasional normal mode, but for heroic/mythic raiding you're going to hold your raid back if you try it. It's simply not any good, and if you really want that kind of healing then I recommend rerolling a druid.

[Pur1tas]

Then be aware that while Glyph of Riptide isn't bad, trying to blanket the raid with HoTs as a shaman is not a serious strategy. It works if you want to mess around in LFR and the occasional normal mode, but for heroic/mythic raiding you're going to hold your raid back if you try it. It's simply not any good, and if you really want that kind of healing then I recommend rerolling a druid.

Thank you for your response. For HST you are totally right I should use that a lot more and I am working on that. I am archiatrà. Sorry forgot that we had a second shaman in as a heal for the start. (who outhealed me even though he is an ele main -.-). Also working on EB useage as I usually do good for the start of a fight but slack later.

This might also reslut in the huge mana problems I had on especially Gruul. Even though I got 0 healing out I had like absolutely no mana. I changed from Conductivity to rushing streams just this ID to try it out. It really feels like Healing rain is not worth the mana because I need to cast it so often and it is quite expensive.

For CDs yeah we are actually still trying to figure out where to put them and stuff. If you checked Twins mythic logs (not sure if we have some, they are somewhere in the guild if we have some) the CDs are used a lot better over the whole fight. Spirit link is still a thing I am working on. I try to use it as often as possible but in a lot of fights, especially i BRF I feel like it has very little use. Using it on Meele group in Kromog fight on CD almost atm.

For you "passive" heal vs active heal thing I have a question you might be able to answer. Would you suggest to just straight out NOT heal if there is nothing to do? I try to force myself to do this lately but it only works party. I always catch myself healing a target that dropped by 20% just for the sake of trying to get some healing done, but usually the other healers are faster and it is essentially wasted.

Do you think us overhealing the bosses is another reason for my low HPS or do you think it is only due to bad play by me? I really feel I should be last but not by that much, with our setup.

Last to Riptide. I only ever spread riptide when otherwise I would be doing nothing or on Hans and Franz when we are doing the dance I try to get it on as many players as possible. I know this wont happen in Mythic or if we would not be overhealing bosses so do you think I should already just quit and try to use stuff on CD ignoring the fact that this might drop me lower in HPS first, but prepareing me for mythic? Like atm it does not matter if I spam glyphed riptide during low dmg phases or if I actually cast stuff because people just wont die, or if they die they die instantly. I realize this changes for Mythic or if we play with a healer less.

Thanks already

[Koor]

We shouldn't think of healing rain as an expensive spell. For example the base heal with my current spellpower:

Healing rain: 13955 * 6 = 83730 heal in the 10 seconds, 6912 mana. HPM 83730/6912 = 12.11.
Healing wave: 35088 heal, 3312 mana, HPM 10.59.

HPM healing rain to healing wave ratio: 12.11/10.59 = 14.3%.

So while it costs about twice as much to cast healing rain when compared to healing wave, even without conductivity, as long as 6 people are in it for the entire 10 seconds, it's 14.3% more mana efficient.

And this is before considering haste. Say with 20% haste, healing rain will tick 20% faster, and therefore heal for 20% more for the same mana cost. This is both a HPS and HPM increase.

Haste also allows casting healing wave faster and therefore increases its HPS, but if we cast more waves with more haste, it requires additional mana, while for healing rain additional haste makes it "cheaper" mana wise, in the sense that we get more healing for the same mana.

[Alltat]

This might also reslut in the huge mana problems I had on especially Gruul. Even though I got 0 healing out I had like absolutely no mana. I changed from Conductivity to rushing streams just this ID to try it out. It really feels like Healing rain is not worth the mana because I need to cast it so often and it is quite expensive.

Healing Rain is expensive per cast, but it does quite a lot of healing and overall it's more mana efficient than anything else you could realistically spend that mana on. If you're low on mana, you should be cutting down on Chain Heals and non-vital Healing Waves rather than cutting down on HR.

For you "passive" heal vs active heal thing I have a question you might be able to answer. Would you suggest to just straight out NOT heal if there is nothing to do? I try to force myself to do this lately but it only works party. I always catch myself healing a target that dropped by 20% just for the sake of trying to get some healing done, but usually the other healers are faster and it is essentially wasted.

Try not to. Healing someone who would be healed up anyway achieves nothing except wasting mana.

Haste also allows casting healing wave faster and therefore increases its HPS, but if we cast more waves with more haste, it requires additional mana, while for healing rain additional haste makes it "cheaper" mana wise, in the sense that we get more healing for the same mana.

Haste definitely needs to be considered for Healing Rain, as the spell basically double-dips: you get a faster casting time and then you also get more healing per cast. Healing Stream Totem and to an extent Riptide are the same, as haste reduces the GCD and also gives additional ticks. None of this is enough to make haste a stat worth stacking, but it does mean that these three spells are significantly better than they might at first seem.

[Deleted]

I just feel it gets a lot more done than unglyphed riptide. It just gives me more healing if I have riptide on 15 targets ticking away than on 3 at a time with a stronger initial heal. This might be because of our setup though

Did you used to play a druid by any chance?

[Pur1tas]

Did you used to play a druid by any chance?

No I did not, it is just that because we have a druid and 2 discs in our raid I never get anything out of the initial riptide heal. It is always wasted. I think I would like druid healing though tbh. :P

[Ingold]

Interesting. I am always a fan of unusual specs. It might be important to note that on several of the high damage spikes you come in quite high. I assume you picked the high tide talent and are mostly casting chain heal when there is a lot of damage?

Edit: Also don't forget you are up against 2 disc priests who are messing up your mastery. Can always blame them :P

[Pur1tas]

Interesting. I am always a fan of unusual specs. It might be important to note that on several of the high damage spikes you come in quite high. I assume you picked the high tide talent and are mostly casting chain heal when there is a lot of damage?

Yeah I do. As I said with two discs and a druid there is no point for me to heal low incomming dmg. I would say like 90% of my healing is done during high dmg phases. I have my riptide going on a lot of targets before high dmg and get CDs going with some Chainheal spamming if needed.

I think I am doing my job quite well during the High dmg phases, it is just like I am essentially useless during the rest of the fight.

[Alltat]

No I did not, it is just that because we have a druid and 2 discs in our raid I never get anything out of the initial riptide heal. It is always wasted. I think I would like druid healing though tbh. :P

If that initial heal is seriously always wasted, you're using way too many healers. Running 5-6 healers in a 19 man raid is rather extreme. Normally, people should be sitting around 80% health for most of a progress fight, not constantly at 100%. Too many healers means too few DPS, which can really hurt your ability to progress. If you find that you do need this many healers for the most intense phases, it could be that you have too little DPS and that you're missing soft enrages, with fights and phases dragging on much longer than they're supposed to. Or you're just not coordinating raid cooldowns as well as you could.

[Pur1tas]

If that initial heal is seriously always wasted, you're using way too many healers. Running 5-6 healers in a 19 man raid is rather extreme. Normally, people should be sitting around 80% health for most of a progress fight, not constantly at 100%. Too many healers means too few DPS, which can really hurt your ability to progress. If you find that you do need this many healers for the most intense phases, it could be that you have too little DPS and that you're missing soft enrages, with fights and phases dragging on much longer than they're supposed to. Or you're just not coordinating raid cooldowns as well as you could.

Nah we are overhealing every fight extremely. No discussion. We just have a lot of players that take avoidable dmg. We rather kill a boss with a healer more than reset it within the first minute over and over again. As I said I know we are way to many healers. (usually 5 Healers for 19 people and 6 for kromog). When we start progressing Mythic at some point we will have to take a lot of healers out, but we are not even close to a Mythic roster atm in my opinion so it is a non issue. It just makes my logs look "bad" for me