Bring back Valor Points!

[Krom2040]

For the life of me, I can't figure out what the hell they were thinking when they got rid of Valor Points. In my estimation, the game is suffering right now in the absence of a reasonable currency for acquiring items. Gold is a fine currency for flavor items but not nearly as effective for "character progression" sorts of things, especially since they throw bucketfuls of it at you just for logging into your garrison. Apexis Crystals are a catastrophic failure, with not enough items available for purchase with them and not enough ways to acquire them other than an extremely tedious daily quest.

I like really Challenge Modes, and find them to be one of very few things to do in the game that are actually compelling to me from a gameplay point-of-view, but NOBODY WANTS TO DO THEM. The daily rewards are garbage, and the gold they give you is barely enough to cover the cost of the potions you probably spend on the run itself. Even after they upgrade the reward to 660 I really can't imagine people being very interested in keeping with it, because the scheme has the downfall of potentially rewarding you with the same pants for five days in a row when you already have a better set of pants from raiding, or whatever.

Valor Points had the major benefit of giving you a slow-but-steady way to acquire targeted upgrades by *playing the actual game*. It was kind of a catch-all way to give you goals outside of the main raiding pathway, and that was a good thing. There really aren't any of those now. That hole is made more strikingly apparent when you look at the complete failure of incentives provided by CM's; where once they could've given you a good chunk of your weekly allotment of a specific currency, now they're essentially useless after you've gotten the associated achievement. Not only does that leave us with one less compelling thing to do in the game, but it also creates a situation where the people who are most experienced in doing that activity are no longer ever interested in doing so, and thus the newer folks aren't able to benefit from that experience.

I just think the lack of a dungeon currency is a very bad thing, and constitutes yet another design decision that really doesn't make any sense to the outside observer. They need to bring this back.

[Jayjayhey]

I know this is an unpopular opinion but I actually liked the badge system they had, specifically in BC. If you were in full BT gear, you could still run Karazhan for badges. There was still a bonus for doing old content. Today, they actually have something similar with Legendary quests. In MoP, you still had to do MSV/ToES for the sigils (prior to 5.4), but even when 5.4 came out, you still could do prior content for bonus chances at legendary quest items if you weren't caught up. The thing is, if you're already caught up, there's no reason to do the older content. With a badge system, you can still collect badges for off set pieces.

IIRC, you also could do heroic dungeons for badges. You can also boost incentive to do those as well with the return of a badge system. It is a win win for everyone.

[anaxie]

CMS have 660 gear in 6.1 and Gold Replaced Valor. Everything is fine since Gold is a good global currency and limited only by your effort on how much you aquire. Enjoy your limitless valor point cap.

[loktark]

Except for the part where the only gear you can get with gold is expensive boes.

[Jayjayhey]

CMs giving gear in the first place makes zero sense. They are run for the ratings and weapon/armor sets/mounts. They don't even drop gear to begin with. Adding a "loot box" to the end it just them trying to get more people to run CMs in general. Most people I know that don't raid do not even attempt CMs for gear.

Why? It's simple. People don't run CMs for gear, they run it for the other stuff. The cool xmog. The ratings they get. The times.

It's like saying people should PvP to get PvE gear or vice versa. Sure, heroic dungeons and CMs take place in the same area, same location, same dungeons. But they are ran for completely different reasons.

[anaxie]

Except for the part where the only gear you can get with gold is expensive boes.

BoEs have dropped in price 300% from launch. They are cheap. Craftables are getting accelerated in 6.1 with blood abundancy and rush orders with 680 kits, Mythic Boes from trash and bosses. ABility to purchase gear from guilds.

The currency is gold Expensive is laughable when gold is either used for Vanity of Gear.

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CMs giving gear in the first place makes zero sense. They are run for the ratings and weapon/armor sets/mounts. They don't even drop gear to begin with. Adding a "loot box" to the end it just them trying to get more people to run CMs in general. Most people I know that don't raid do not even attempt CMs for gear.

Why? It's simple. People don't run CMs for gear, they run it for the other stuff. The cool xmog. The ratings they get. The times.

It's like saying people should PvP to get PvE gear or vice versa. Sure, heroic dungeons and CMs take place in the same area, same location, same dungeons. But they are ran for completely different reasons.

People spammed CMs the first month before highmaul opened. IF you want to farm shitbag 630 gear go ahead. everyone was Full BoE or 640+ gear.

Also new players should cap conquest. especially on expansion launch. Not doing it is lazy for easy to get good gear.

[Waylander]

Hey but there are apexis crystals now. Just do the same thing over and over again for three weeks and you eventually get a tiny upgrade. Wait ...

[Djuntas]

Neither valor, nor current system works.

Bring back badges. It was epic. Spend hole day pwning 5 mans (or trying to if it was TBC) at your own pace, with no gating or lock-outs.

[anaxie]

Neither valor, nor current system works.

Bring back badges. It was epic. Spend hole day pwning 5 mans (or trying to if it was TBC) at your own pace, with no gating or lock-outs.

You can gather gold at your own pace doing any activity you desire to achieve that end.

Gold as a global currency works best.

5 man "chores" was a fucking awful system. No thanks

[Zstr]

they just need to add more items sold by apexis, and also add apexis crystal reward to hc dung completion

but then it will only work for certain expansion
valor was universal thing, I still don't understand why they remove it

[Wondercrab]

I 100% agree. I cannot for the life of me fathom how they thought breaking a system like this would help the game in any way. It's like they forgot the whole reason they introduced it in TBC in the first place, because all the problems from Vanilla it was intended to resolve have sprung right back up again in WoD.

It's also important to remember that valour/justice was used to purchase a ton of legacy items you might want for transmogs etc, along with heirlooms, the honour exchange, and by extension a few other things. Valour and justice were tied into a *ton* of content in the game, making them incredibly valuable and making current (and sometimes old) content always worth running.

Now there's no reason for me to run anything once I've outgeared it, since I can just throw up a gem on the AH every couple of days and make ten times the gold I'd get from doing a dungeon or raid. Justice and valour were made valuable due to the huge amount of things they could be spent on, the controlled caps, and the limited, but still sufficiently diverse, ways in which they could be acquired. The currencies we have now are a train wreck of game design compared to the tight effectiveness of the justice/valour system.

[anaxie]

they just need to add more items sold by apexis, and also add apexis crystal reward to hc dung completion

Apexis isnt the replacement considering craftables for every slot with perfect stats and ~680 I'm not sure what Apexis is supposed to be but it seems like an abortion. Should i grind 80k when not lazy for acheive im prolly just gonna dump that shit for my weekly seals

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I 100% agree. I cannot for the life of me fathom how they thought breaking a system like this would help the game in any way. It's like they forgot the whole reason they introduced it in TBC in the first place, because all the problems from Vanilla it was intended to resolve have sprung right back up again in WoD.

It's also important to remember that valour/justice was used to purchase a ton of legacy items you might want for transmogs etc, along with heirlooms, the honour exchange, and by extension a few other things. Valour and justice were tied into a *ton* of content in the game, making them incredibly valuable and making current (and sometimes old) content always worth running.

Now there's no reason for me to run anything once I've outgeared it, since I can just throw up a gem on the AH every couple of days and make ten times the gold I'd get from doing a dungeon or raid. Justice and valour were made valuable due to the huge amount of things they could be spent on, the controlled caps, and the limited, but still sufficiently diverse, ways in which they could be acquired. The currencies we have now are a train wreck of game design compared to the tight effectiveness of the justice/valour system.

LOL? Gearing in WoD is the fucking easiest it has been in the history of the game.

Garrison caches, Improve coin system, huge abundance of gear on FOUR Lockouts, tier bosses dropping 9 items again.

Getting BiS non proc bonus gear is so fucking easy in the game now in under 2 months.

GLOBAL CURRENCY IS GOLD. THE SKY IS THE LIMIT ON HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO ACQUIRE. Your gameplay and gear is limited on how much you want to do.


Valor was a fuckin abortion

Everytime I had to sleep my through through a brewing storm or any godawful boring a shit irrelevant scenario from 2 years ago for my weekly upgrade. Fuck that noise

[Krom2040]

You can gather gold at your own pace doing any activity you desire to achieve that end.

Gold as a global currency works best.

5 man "chores" was a fucking awful system. No thanks

Gold is a terrible currency. I have eight level 100 characters, so I can log onto them one after another, set up follower missions, log in the next day and collect on them, and then vendor the salvage, and by the end of it I probably will have gained about 3000g. It takes about an hour, and it's boring as hell and doesn't even remotely involve the core "kill things and profit" gameplay that the entire game is built around. Similarly, I can install TradeSkill Master and game the AH, and that it's own mini-game of sorts for people who are into that kind of thing, but it's absolutely not what the game is about, or at least what it should be about. There should be benefits conferred by having lots of gold, but an important lesson that Blizzard has apparently forgotten is that the reward structure should largely be focused on running around and killing monsters. Breaking that tenet was a big reason why pre-expansion Diablo 3 was a disaster for all but a small contingent of players who *really* enjoyed Auction House analysis.

As for "5-man chores", there's no reason why a "dungeon currency" necessarily has to require 5-mans to obtain. Daily quests can reward them just as easily, and even raids. I would certainly argue that greater, more cooperative challenges should offer a relative benefit, i.e. running a daily CM in a reasonable amount of time should reward a proportionally favorable number of tokens as compared to solo questing. I would probably also suggest that raids generally offer substantial enough rewards in and of themselves that they don't need to reward many tokens. But regardless, there should be some currency that is solely obtained from actively participating in the core gameplay (i.e. killing monsters until they're dead), and which can be used to purchase targeted upgrades.

[Saft]

If they keep adding upgrade recipes for crafted epics and possibly increase the unique equip for them it'll be a great substitute for VP gear. The only thing they have to keep in mind for the boe crafts is the catching up part because soon enough it'll take way too many cooldowns to fully upgrade an item. I haven't checked out the vendor and daily for the bop mat though.

[Djuntas]

You can gather gold at your own pace doing any activity you desire to achieve that end.

Gold as a global currency works best.

5 man "chores" was a fucking awful system. No thanks

So you want everything gated and restricted? If I wish to spend 10 hours on one day farming something, to get it out off the world today, I should be able to.

Valor stops me from progressing at the pace I wanted. Also more sub money for blizzard, evil shit.

[Wondercrab]

LOL? Gearing in WoD is the fucking easiest it has been in the history of the game.

Garrison caches, Improve coin system, huge abundance of gear on FOUR Lockouts, tier bosses dropping 9 items again.

Getting BiS non proc bonus gear is so fucking easy in the game now in under 2 months.

GLOBAL CURRENCY IS GOLD. THE SKY IS THE LIMIT ON HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO ACQUIRE. Your gameplay and gear is limited on how much you want to do.

That wasn't the point of my post at all, but it does illustrate what I was getting at. The issue is that the current currencies we have are nowhere near as valuable as valour and justice were, and the ways of obtaining them are simultaneously too specific (do the single apexis daily) or too diverse (anything in the game which rewards gold) to make current end-game content feel rewarding and give it the replay value it's had since TBC.

The previous systems encouraged players to engage with dungeons, raids, PvP, and, in Pandaria, dailies, pet battles, scenarios, and rare hunting. The current currency systems do not (well, outside of the single daily we now have, I suppose), since the aforementioned activities either reward none of said currencies at all, or in too inefficient of a manner for them to be worth it. I certainly don't know anyone who's running dungeons and raids to make gold.

It's an issue of replay value and keeping players engaged with current content, which are two absolutely critical elements of MMO design. Right now, the systems we have are far inferior to how justice/valour worked in that respect.

[Chickat]

Badges are better imo too. Wrath had the best system. Bring that back.

[anaxie]

Gold is a terrible currency. I have eight level 100 characters, so I can log onto them one after another, set up follower missions, log in the next day and collect on them, and then vendor the salvage, and by the end of it I probably will have gained about 3000g. It takes about an hour, and it's boring as hell and doesn't even remotely involve the core "kill things and profit" gameplay that the entire game is built around. Similarly, I can install TradeSkill Master and game the AH, and that it's own mini-game of sorts for people who are into that kind of thing, but it's absolutely not what the game is about, or at least what it should be about. There should be benefits conferred by having lots of gold, but an important lesson that Blizzard has apparently forgotten is that the reward structure should largely be focused on running around and killing monsters. Breaking that tenet was a big reason why pre-expansion Diablo 3 was a disaster for all but a small contingent of players who *really* enjoyed Auction House analysis.

As for "5-man chores", there's no reason why a "dungeon currency" necessarily has to require 5-mans to obtain. Daily quests can reward them just as easily, and even raids. I would certainly argue that greater, more cooperative challenges should offer a relative benefit, i.e. running a daily CM in a reasonable amount of time should reward a proportionally favorable number of tokens as compared to solo questing. I would probably also suggest that raids generally offer substantial enough rewards in and of themselves that they don't need to reward many tokens. But regardless, there should be some currency that is solely obtained from actively participating in the core gameplay (i.e. killing monsters until they're dead), and which can be used to purchase targeted upgrades.

Crafting gear was expansded. Don't d/e your shit because It prolly we be upgradeable beyond 680 in the future. BoEs from raids everywhere.

Gold is the best currency because it's what everything is measured by and it's relevant to EVERYONE. Not some minor subset of player needed dogshit VP rep gear. forcing a system to be designed to upgrade gear so the currency isnt 100% worthless. just like Cata how VP was used to AQUIRE GOLD from the BoE item in most cases or PROFESSION CORE MATS.

Deal with it

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Badges are better imo too. Wrath had the best system. Bring that back.

Wraths icc system was an abortion needed to upgrade tier through 3 qualities VS just redeeming your mythic token. Fuck that system too.

Daily dungeon chores? no thanks!

[Deleted]

Badges are better imo too. Wrath had the best system. Bring that back.

Cata 4.3 was best for me. I "geared" several toons via new 5-mans and valor gear. And it was even "fun" for me. Now, if i ever cba to level my alts in WoD, they will wait until timeless isle-esque tokens if we ever get them.

[anaxie]

So you want everything gated and restricted? If I wish to spend 10 hours on one day farming something, to get it out off the world today, I should be able to.

Valor stops me from progressing at the pace I wanted. Also more sub money for blizzard, evil shit.

I do mythic raids. Your pleb gear is meaningless to me

Infracted;