AMD questions

[Shadow Fox]

I've recently been curious on AMD processors...

The summaries I've been getting and finding seem to all agree that AMD 8370 through FX8 series seem to be better for Gaming, but seem to have "steeper" frame drops, but with better overall performance slightly above the Haswell i5's, but below the Haswell i7's if the user desires to Record or Streaming games?

That accurate?

My machines are more so built around reliability+performance for long-term and constant use; and Intel processors are all I've really worked and played with. While I can Record, I often don't.
And my Internet doesn't have the ability to Stream, so I'm wondering if it would be better to save a couple hundred on my next build to forward into a larger / Second SSD, or another graphics card just by switching from Intel to AMD for processors?

----

Also, I always thought WoW ran on 2 physical cores, like Starcraft and Diablo due to the games being needed to run on 32b processors as well without choking the system?

I thought that was the reasoning behind Starcraft 2 being so limited on resources is because the game is locked on 2 physical cores, and can't use more then 3Gb's of RAM?

[Noctifer616]

Also, I always thought WoW ran on 2 physical cores, like Starcraft and Diablo due to the games being needed to run on 32b processors as well without choking the system?

I thought that was the reasoning behind Starcraft 2 being so limited on resources is because the game is locked on 2 physical cores, and can't use more then 3Gb's of RAM?

Most games never use more than 3GB of RAM. A lot of games run fine with just 4GB and most of those 4 are for OS and other programs. I think WoW was never above 2GB for me.

[potis]

I am not sure what you are trying to do here or achieve cause your posts make absolutely 0 sense.

WoW and every Blizzard game was NVIDIA oriented cause of the deal they had 10+ years ago as every company did..the whole "Powered by Nvidia" things changed and now that doesnt happen anymore, if it happens its not mentioned during the loading screens and GPU wise, nvidia or AMD have no difference in Blizzard games, and if there is a difference you cant see it cause CPU bottlenecks.

AMD has horrible CPUs..end of story, their architecture is horrible, end of story.

AMD APU's are decent only if you are gonna play older games and light games like LoL and never attempt to play anything else.

On the GPU side, performance wise there is absolutely no difference between the 2 companies, sure, 980 is ahead now cause its the new model but it costs too much while you can find a 290X down to 350E.

Yes, lots of power, heat noise etc, 99% of people that will buy a 290X will not OC it or care about anything as long as it runs their games, and it does run the games perfectly fine as to what its intended to be, 5% faster than the 970 while being lower priced with the whole fiasco.


I really do not understand your posts? Are you trying to find justification for your purchase?

There is no justification for anyone that buys and AMD CPU to play online, you fucked up, end of story.

We will see how good 380/380X is when it comes out next month to see if they improved at all on the heat/noise/power side despite being the same architecture as 290X.

[Noctifer616]

AMD has horrible CPUs..end of story, their architecture is horrible, end of story.

And yet it manages to keep up with Intel in games that make use of the cores. There is nothing wrong with the CPU architecture AMD is using, the problem is most applications today are not tailored to use more than one core properly. It's almost 10 years since the first dual core processors were released and DirectX is still lacking any proper multy threading support.

[Shadow Fox]

I am not sure what you are trying to do here or achieve cause your posts make absolutely 0 sense.

It does make sense; it's a legitimate question.

AMD has horrible CPUs..end of story, their architecture is horrible, end of story.

Would like to know what sources your information is from to justify any of that.

AMD APU's are decent only if you are gonna play older games and light games like LoL and never attempt to play anything else.

Again, data or information?

Several people are considering migrating over to Intel because of AMD's drastic and how they have been competing in stability, performance, and while still being cheaper?

Off topic note:


- - - Updated - - -

And yet it manages to keep up with Intel in games that make use of the cores. There is nothing wrong with the CPU architecture AMD is using, the problem is most applications today are not tailored to use more than one core properly. It's almost 10 years since the first dual core processors were released and DirectX is still lacking any proper multy threading support.

Which is one reason the Mantle API's are appealing to me; A new graphical API that several Studio's are supporting (Mainly EA studio's right now, Sony following in development from a press release last summer.) to replace the mess that is DirectX. Several Linux developers have seem to pick up Mantle as well to attempt and throw it into a possible viable API for gaming.

While ATI card's are designed around it, ATI cards with AMD processors seem to be handling that combination in Mantle enabled games amazingly well in performance, electricity, and power.

DirectX's last Overhaul was with 9, just seems to be patching from the old code, architecture, and protocols from the NT era.

While the NT era was revolutionary in Computer Technology, we can't just keep band-aiding problems over time from such an archaic platoform...

[potis]

Okay i will play your little game.

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...ttila_proz.jpg

A game that just came out..all new!

And here you see an amazing bug thats probably patched now but still, sad.

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...volve_proz.jpg

Oh thats CryEngine btw, supports "multicores"

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...-test-proz.jpg

And there we go, should i keep linking every single article?

Apart from the 5 games that everyone knows AMD runs decently on, it runs HORRIBLE ON EVERYTHING ELSE.

Russians like to test out every single game so that site is rather amazing to shut up the AMD fanboys.

Its the same shit that showed that AMD = Intel when BF4 came out, then new drivers came out and there goes the 30% difference again.

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...U-cod_proz.jpg

CoD:AW.

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...cry_4_proz.jpg

FC4

I will keep linking every single article really.

Here is your mantle bullshit on the one of the 5-10 games that AMD runs decently on:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http...roz_mantle.jpg

[Xs]

@Xs
Wow seems to be running quite equaly on all 4 cores :
http://i.imgur.com/u4Sy2I7.jpg

Barely even looks like wow is running on that, my test was running, jumping, mounting, going between the various zones within the garrison, trying to make it actually stress the CPU as much as possible (OCed 4670k) all without the FPS cap on running ~100 FPS to make sure. If you tried the same kind of things, then it just looks like your GPU is capping you more than anything, not sure if the 650 would do that, but I'm running a 970 so I know mine is hitting the cap.

[potis]

And sure..you dont want to believe the 10 people that try to help you in these forums.

Believe the other 10 that come and post "I went from AMD to Intel" and saw a massive difference.

No one said AMD isnt worth buying, its not worth buying for the money they are asking.

170e for a 8350 is simply a no, a huge ass no.

Drop it to 120E and then we can start talking about performance/money ratio without going in the whole "OC".

[Shadow Fox]

Forgive me if I don't click anything from Russian domains due to a number recent events in the past several months.

I'm not saying AMD is better, and I'm not sure where you pulled that information from.

I give questions, and you seem to be selecting people out and going full Intel-Master-Race on people who even mention it...

[potis]

Forgive me if I don't click anything from Russian domains due to a number recent events in the past several months.

I'm not saying AMD is better, and I'm not sure where you pulled that information from.

I give questions, and you seem to be selecting people out and going full Intel-Master-Race on people who even mention it...

I am just tired of people talking in these forums because google and tomshardware.

I wanted to answer more of your stuff but i cant be bothered with another AMD vs Intel discussion.

I read resources from multiple different sites (I dont trust russian ones too, most get ip-blocked by Malwarebytes too for some reason) but i trust that site and Guru3d and many more including my own country's sites and people.

Also, those are just image links.

Also my resources is, every major tech site, my own personal experience of building PCs and setting them up, fixing the QQ of many idiots buying pre-builts and then come crying (Friends of friends and friends of familiars and familiars) and why its not running and similar.

The fact is simple:

A build with a FX8350 and the whole "Oc it to 4.8GHZ"! Bullshit, costs as much as build with a i5 thats gonna be OCed also, therefor there is no price gain ever, which makes it no point into buying AMD at all unless they:

1)Reduce the price from 170e to like 130e.

2)Fix their crap ass motherboards to OC properly and to not require a 990 that costs as much as a mid-tier Z97.

3)Did i say the whole heat issue requiring insane cooling?

Poor little i5 4690K can OC to 4.2Ghz (A joke OC since in most chips there is no voltage change required to achieve that apart from maybe a 0.010V change aka no actual temperature change) with a 30$ cooler and ANY Z97 motherboard.

Which would be 230e + 85e for the joke small Z97 motherboards and a 29e 212 Evo.

Compared to 170e 8350 120-140e 990FX motherboard/80e+ cooler.

Why buy AMD? And i am using my countries +10% more on everything than rest of Europe.

[Pyrophobia]

I am also reading from everywhere and trying to figure out what is best. I have made my decision long ago (6 months) and there is nothing to change at this point at least for me.
That doesn't mean i can'ta talk about it and learn from my past decision (even if it was a wrong one) combined with newer data.

Googling on your own is one thing. But bouncing off your thoughts with a comunity yelds much more search options and wider variety of results for me.

Right before the last few posts i found this "Mantle" thing that is discussed in here
and was later discussed in the wow forums. Now i have to learn more about it.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11581708282

seems like it could give a huge boost to WoW and if it is giving it now working properly on AMD GPU's then there is no reason to use a GeForce one untill the time they start suporting it too.

[Wries]

The only thing i am finding is that there are some isues between nvidia GPU runining on AMD cpu systems. But everything else suggests that there are no benefits from pairing AMD CPU (non APU) with an AMD GPU.

The second thing i am finding is that some games do not utilise properly the Nvidia CUDA cores. I am wondering what is the situation with WoW and those Cuda cores.
That can potentialy mean AMD CPU is better for WoW alone

a forum post on here says wow doesn't support Cuda cores
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...th-Nvidia-CUDA
but it is 4 years old

CUDA, in this sense, is the compute platform. In the same way most games do not use the compute platform of AMD cards, they do not do it with CUDA either. There are some notable exceptions, namely if you include titles that utilize PhysX or TressFX (though the latter is DirectCompute and supported by both vendors), but all in all the compute platforms are different beasts and don't belong to most gaming discussions.

Utilization of the GPU cores in gaming is just fine in any or all games that are relevant. There has always been some talk about Nvidia being slightly better than AMD in WoW, but honestly the difference seem negligible at best. It is also a CPU-bound game for most.

The only issues I've heard about Nvidia GPU in AMD systems have been related to SLI-configurations. Given that SLI chews a bit extra CPU, and might not be that well of a multithreaded process, the smaller performance gain might just have to do with the "weaker" CPU. Pure speculation at this point though. Not such a common config and not something I've tried myself.

Right before the last few posts i found this "Mantle" thing that is discussed in here
and was later discussed in the wow forums. Now i have to learn more about it.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11581708282

seems like it could give a huge boost to WoW and if it is giving it now working properly on AMD GPU's then there is no reason to use a GeForce one untill the time they start suporting it too.

I feel there are better odds of WoW moving to DirectX 12 rather than mantle. Just because it's going to be a difficult process of porting the DX11 code to either Mantle or DX12, but one of them supports both graphics card vendors while the other does not.

Either way, it's gonna be a while before we see WoW supporting any of the new graphics APIs.

[a21fa7c67f26f6d49a20c2c51]

CUDA cores aren't some extra bolted-onf kit sitting idle, its a way of repurposing your regular graphics hardware to run embarrassingly parallizable compute-heavy functions on Nvidia GPUs. OpenCL, GCD, OpenMP, AMP, etc. are all libraries that do basically the same thing.

In the 'bad old days' of the early 2000s some researchers were taking their data, encoding it as vertices and texture data, sending it to the GPU, running vertex and fragment shaders that computed "useful stuff" (that looked nothing like a 3D scene) and then reading the data off the graphics card and reconstructing the results of their calculation on their data from the "image" it produced. It was a huge hack - but it worked. It didn't take long before somebody decided to make an API that abstracted all the 3d-graphics nonsense and let researcher talk about their data as data rather than vertices and their calculation code as regular functions. When you look at OpenCL or CUDA you see a lot of similarities with OpenGL in the "steps" you take in order to to get data on and off the GPU, how you build your compute kernels, etc. Ultimately you're doing the same thing—putting data and instructions on the GPU and asking it to execute one on with the other—but it's useful to have primitives that map well to the task you're trying to accomplish.

WoW doesn't use CUDA, it wouldn't be useful for anything Warcraft is doing, and even if you was, those resources are better spent elsewhere.

[Llunai]

Ty for the responce

Regarding the cores used. AMD is 4 cores with x2 logical.

Wrong. AMD is 8 integer cores, 4 shared floating point cores.

[fixx]

Wrong. AMD is 8 integer cores, 4 shared floating point cores.

And because almost everything computers are doing today requires floating point math from playing mp3's to showing pictures of cats and running 3D games AMD's extra integer cores isn't any better than Intel's HT in real world.

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if FX-8350 comes with adapter to connect it to central heating or if they provide small nuclear power plant in package?

[Pyrophobia]

With Mantle on the horrizon AMD GPU's are now more apealing to me. Even if atm there is no differences between GeForce and Radeon long term the second might prove a better investment thanks to this new tool that is attempting to overthrone DirectX

Seems that games started supporting it already some went for and added support after their release.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...support_Mantle

now Microsoft's answer is DirectX12 that will be offering something simmilar according to another source Quote: "But DirectX 12 holds a key advantage over Mantle: Its performance tweaks will work on all hardware, not just AMD hardware. We’ve broken down the differences between the competing graphics APIs if you’re curious"

So .... in terms of picking up a new GPU ... oh boy i am behind on all this
I am learning so much guys thank you all

So Directx 11.2 then Directx 12 will be changing the ways the games utilize our GPU's and will esentialy provide significant boosts.

*hyped

@Radoleg my 8350 is runing at 30-32 degrees atm in a hot room doing random everyday stuff. went to 40+ something when i was playing on Ultra last night ... i am more than sure that if you hope that AMD can solve your general everyday heating needs you will have a hard time acomplishing this with that particular CPU.

AND AGAIN this is not a forum post of wich CPU is better than the other. I was searching for an answer could i have made a better decision with the budget i had. Turns out for WoW and many other games i could have.

And in perspective i am hoping that this "increased staff at blizz" will be providing us soon with more and more WoW egine changes, like better multitreading, mantle, directx12 etc.

Quote:
"6.1 will also see the return of multisample anti-aliasing and the introduction of supersample anti-aliasing. MSAA and SSAA will both be available to DirectX 11 card owners. Blizzard say they’ll be “providing the widest variety of anti-aliasing options we’ve ever had available, ranging from performance-optimal to performance-crushing."

[Nellah]

Mantle and DX12 will help close the AMD/Intel CPU performance gap. I'm in the process of running Mantle benchmarks on a lot of CPUs including an AMD A10-5800K when paired with my R9 290, and so far the results have impressed (Star Swarm not a slideshow on a Pentium 4? Bwuh?) Intel chips will still have a distinct edge on power consumption at least until AMD's "Zen" architecture is released, which we currently know next to nothing about and can only speculate.

[Cyanotical]

this thread,


Intel CPUs are better for gaming, that is a fact unfortunately, AMD is focusing on wider sales of lower power processors, they don't care about enthusiasts or gamers, not that intel cares either but they are doing way more atm, we aren't that far off from a NUC being sufficient for gaming while amd is still cranking out the same sudo-8 core that is only on par with a 4 year old cpu from intel. you can't blame AMD for this either, they came into the market riding intel's engineering and made a huge impact on the market with key technologies, but then they have suffered from poor and often no leadership, its not that AMD has bad engineers, its that nobody is at the helm that cares about the performance gap. AMD thinks the future is in low power combined chips like APUs, not edge pushing high performance cpus that barely sell compared to the rest of the market (enthusiast and gamer sales likely make up less than 1% of the market for both companies)


APUs, will always see benefit to adding a discrete GPU provided the graphical load exceeds what the on board GPU can do, APUs are not magic, they are nothing more than cpu cores with a gpu attached just like intel integrated graphics

cuda cores are only something than can be accessed directly by applications that favor core count over accuracy, that said, games use the cores all the time for normal rendering, games don't use cuda

while intel does invalidate your warranty for overclocking, if you fry your cpu they will send you a new one free, no questions asked, but only once per purchase, i don't see how this is an issue though, it's silly to expect a warranty to continue through overclocking, its not like ford keeps the warranty on your engine when you supercharge it, that would be a stupid business choice

the idea behind an overclockable cpu is for those willing to risk burning out their cpu they can go for faster performance, its not expected or assumed that everyone will, and the assumed risk vs reward is pretty much the heart of tinkering with anything

[Pyrophobia]

Thanks Nellah.

We might not see WoW work with mantle soon but from Microsoft are sayign that DirectX 12 will work with older directx games and still provide if not full at least a partial boost. Do you have more info on the subject or sources i can digest ?

edit: found this image showing how Dx11 and Dx12 will different in utilizing the CPU cores:


so when Dx12 hits that 8350 should be giving much more juice than now or would i need a new GPU to get there too. *oh boy oh boy