1. #1

    Must have 2 gear sets to be competitive, or something else? (Shadow)

    Hey all, first post here. /wave

    Long story short, I pwned in SoO and a lot of people I know went and rerolled spriest because of me. :P Now I understand the rotation is different and we are forced to use CoP and dotweave on virtually every fight (yes, I know this may change soon and I hope it does) and as far as I know, I've been adapting and dotweaving perfectly (will discuss my rotation shortly). However, I had vaguely known about Warcraftlogs, but only recently had someone introduce me to it and point out that my numbers are slacking profoundly on a lot of the new bosses in WoD. I realize that the numbers are skewed because the website is only tracking 1 kill per boss on a couple scattered bosses, but seeing myself at like 20th percentile came as a total shock to me, since I always felt I did relatively well compared to the pugs I was with and even pretty much all other shadow priests I encountered pugging...and now I'm determined to fix it.

    I also noticed that judging by warcraft logs, another shadow priest that I really respect seems to be having a hard time with the same exact bosses I'm flunking on, albeit not as hard (though she has about 10 ilvls on me).
    I am 666ilvl and my gear is crit > multistrike > mastery/haste. I cannot link my Armory apparently, as this is my first post. My character is Regia-MoonGuard.
    I won't link the friend's armory without permission, but she is 674ilvl and it looks like she is gearing mastery > multistrike > crit/haste judging by her gear.

    Is it our gearing stat priority or something else? When I saw that she and I failed the same bosses (particularly Gruul), I thought maybe it was because we both geared the same way, for multitarget, and you needed to prioritize mastery in order to perform on singletarget fights. However, her armory shows that unlike me, she's going for a substantial amount of mastery, and she still sucks on Gruul.

    Something I wish I could see on Warcraftlogs is whether the same 90th percentile shadow priests on Gruul are also doing well on Darmac etc., or if they are comparatively underperforming there. The latter would suggest that shadow priests need at least 2 entirely different gear sets to be competitive on a general scale, which is beyond stupid. I am geared primarily for multitarget (though I attempted to squeeze some mastery in there for those singletarget fights -- possibly unwise??) yet was told to GTFO from a heroic group because I was judged purely off of my scores on Gruul. /rage

    So I guess the best input I could get would be from any shadow priest that has done WELL on Gruul. Obviously someone's at the 85th percentile and above -- Warcraftlogs suggests that percentile is around 29-30k. Anyone breaking 30k on Gruul, normal or heroic? Can I see your gear and rotation?

    Rotation for singletarget (i.e. Gruul, my worst encounter):
    MS + MB until 4 orbs > MS > SW:P > VT > MB > Insanity (refresh and continue to full duration possible) > MB when insanity is done > Insanity again (full duration possible), other dots fall off with a couple seconds remaining on Insanity > back to MS + MB

    Oregorger: Same as above, running around frantically and watching my numbers go to hell once the crate phase starts.
    Flamebender: Modified version of above, keeping SW:P and VT up on Flamebender and one wolf while I perform the above rotation on the other wolf. Prioritize MB on cooldown on the non-dotted wolf.
    Hans/Franz: Same as above; keep SW:P and VT up on the second guy while he's targetable, otherwise perform singletarget rotation on the other guy.
    Kromog (haven't done as shadow, only as disc, but would do this): Singletarget burn rotation on boss, halo all the hands, burn the tanks' hands, mind sear some while there are still available clumps of hands, then SW:P/SW: D/MB the remaining hands, prioritizing healer hands for DP/insanity if available.

    "Strategy" for Blast Furnace (using Auspicious Spirits):
    SW:P on everything, spam DP, Insanity on priority targets, MC security guard at ~5% for elemental debuff and big melee damage for a short time (hits harder than I do, usually dies early from dots while MCed -- this is strategic as it is untauntable when MC drops)

    Iron Maidens (Auspicious Spirits, Surge of Darkness, Twist of Fate):
    Prioritize keeping SW:P up on everything, then apply VT, use instant mind spike whenever available, spend most of the fight refreshing dots and preventing SW:P from falling off. Possibly excessive re-application of SW:P, often refreshing it whenever I refresh VT. [Side-note: My Affdots:Spriest and Tidyplates used to show ticking dot durations above nameplates without targeting or focusing council-type bosses, but they no longer work and I haven't been able to get them to, so I've been relying on /focus and the mental clock -- is there a new addon for this?]

    Thogar (I am about average on this fight):
    When no adds, use rotation for singletarget as described above, otherwise spam mind sear. When cannon guy comes up, mind blast it; if DP is ready, throw DP and just blast it with Insanity without weaving other dots onto it.

    Beastlord Darmac (Strongest fight, 83rd percentile):
    Burn singletarget rotation on darmac when he's alone, put SW:P on all spears for ToF procs, add VT to the spears also if they are sitting at high health for long periods of time (halo/mind sear on the stampede is higher priority than this unless spears pose a threat) I'm currently doing 37k on this fight on heroic, no kill yet and no logs.


    Is it my gearing stat priority? Do I need to have a second gear set for singletarget fights in order to not be laughable? Is it just that I'm not padding as much as other spriests do?

    Please, if you are excelling on Gruul as shadow, let me see your gear
    Last edited by Regia; 2015-02-17 at 05:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Keyboard Turner Kniveschau's Avatar
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    First problem is the rotation. NEVER delay a MB for ANY reason:

    MS + MB until 4 > SW:P > VT > DP > MB > Insanity until MB off cool down > MB > Filler (glyphed shield, glyphed SW: D, MF, Halo, or Shadowfiend) > DP > Insanity until MB off CD > MB > Insanity for duration > Filler > Back to MS spam. My rotation changes slightly as my 2-piece brings MB off cool down slightly sooner during the dot weave rotation. Either way, if all goes well you should be casting your last filler while your dots wear off unless you were under the effects of a haste proc.

    This may change with haste and/or set bonuses.

    This is my log for this week on Gruul (96th percentile): [cant post link but search Knivesvow-Blackrock on Warcraft logs and you'll find it]

    As you may be able to see from the log, I'm running a full mastery build at 680 ilvl. It gives me about 60% mastery, good for a fight like Gruul with no adds and little movement. If you look at the other fights on that log, you'll see my numbers fall in comparison because I'm not running a crit/haste/multi build with AS.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Drye's Shadow guide on howtopriest.

    Read it. Learn the important parts of it. As Kniveschau said, your single target priority is wrong, but thats simple to fix.
    Currently CoP is still top on most fights, but you can squeeze our more DPS using AS on a few BRF bosses, such as Blast Furnace (I still question how much of this extra dps is useful and not padding, especially on phase 3), Maidens and possibly Beastlord depending on your strategy. AS with better crit gear and 4pc tier becomes dominant on all fights apart from a couple in 6.1, but we aren't there yet.
    I find that a simple way to make a big difference in your DPS is with smart Halo usage. Firstly, make sure you are actually hitting targets at 25-28 yards with it. The HaloPro addon is great for this, I'd suggest you get it. Secondly, don't mindlessly hit it on CD; think about when secondary targets are spawning and if you can hit them with it. If you can hit a second target for full damage, then its worth delaying it for up to 20 seconds (e.g. the abberations on Margok). If you can hit a fuckload of other targets with it (Beastlord add packs, Kromog hands, Operator packs etc) then it can be worth saving it solely for those times. It isnt padding if those targets need to die just as much as the main boss.

  4. #4
    To answer one of your question; yes, you do need two gear sets for Shadow to be fully effective.
    On a fight like gruul, CoP and a mastery set is way ahead. Goes for all pure single target fights.
    For most other fights in BRF you'll want to be AS to optimize your DPS, and prio crit.

    What this means is either you get 2 gear sets or you play a suboptimal spec/play with suboptimal gear on a few bosses.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kniveschau View Post
    First problem is the rotation. NEVER delay a MB for ANY reason:

    MS + MB until 4 > SW:P > VT > DP > MB > Insanity until MB off cool down > MB > Filler (glyphed shield, glyphed SW: D, MF, Halo, or Shadowfiend) > DP > Insanity until MB off CD > MB > Insanity for duration > Filler > Back to MS spam. My rotation changes slightly as my 2-piece brings MB off cool down slightly sooner during the dot weave rotation. Either way, if all goes well you should be casting your last filler while your dots wear off unless you were under the effects of a haste proc.

    This may change with haste and/or set bonuses.

    This is my log for this week on Gruul (96th percentile): [cant post link but search Knivesvow-Blackrock on Warcraft logs and you'll find it]

    As you may be able to see from the log, I'm running a full mastery build at 680 ilvl. It gives me about 60% mastery, good for a fight like Gruul with no adds and little movement. If you look at the other fights on that log, you'll see my numbers fall in comparison because I'm not running a crit/haste/multi build with AS.
    Hey, happy first post to you too. o/
    I had heard that from other spriests (clipping the Insanity in favor of MB) but, in practice, I found that it substantially reduced my numbers on the training dummy. I figured maybe people were saying that because they were using a mastery-heavy build, as opposed to mine. It especially seems odd for the first MB, which would overlap with SW:P and VT and thus be missing the +40% dmg from CoP. However, I will definitely take another look at it if everybody agrees that I'm wrong.

    For some reason not letting me quote or even mention others...getting some kind of link error. Thanks for your input regardless.

    EDIT: I just tried the different singletarget rotations on the training target dummy again and found the same thing...the extended Insanity does significantly more damage than when it does I clip it in favor of mind blast -- though I also noted that my buffs had higher uptime when I was extending Insanity. I kept the trials going for as much as 10 minutes each to try and smooth out any deviation caused by the buffs, but I think they generally are actually popping up more often when Insanity is extended. I am using the Mark of the Thunderlord enchant, which extends when you crit, and I am thinking longer insanity = more crits = longer extended buff. Sorry I don't have any proper theorycrafting statistics to show, I am just eyeballing it both visually and on the meters and it seems to make a huge positive difference. ALTHOUGH, on fights like Gruul, I've often had to move in the middle of my extended Insanity, which results in it not being extended at all, so perhaps trying to do that is what's killing me. Will give Gruul a couple shots today on normal and see how I do.
    Last edited by Regia; 2015-02-17 at 05:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Regia View Post
    Hey, happy first post to you too. o/
    I had heard that from other spriests (clipping the Insanity in favor of MB) but, in practice, I found that it substantially reduced my numbers on the training dummy. I figured maybe people were saying that because they were using a mastery-heavy build, as opposed to mine. It especially seems odd for the first MB, which would overlap with SW:P and VT and thus be missing the +40% dmg from CoP. However, I will definitely take another look at it if everybody agrees that I'm wrong.

    For some reason not letting me quote or even mention others...getting some kind of link error. Thanks for your input regardless.
    CoP doesn't affect Mind Blast damage, only cooldown.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Regia View Post
    Hey, happy first post to you too. o/
    I had heard that from other spriests (clipping the Insanity in favor of MB) but, in practice, I found that it substantially reduced my numbers on the training dummy. I figured maybe people were saying that because they were using a mastery-heavy build, as opposed to mine. It especially seems odd for the first MB, which would overlap with SW:P and VT and thus be missing the +40% dmg from CoP. However, I will definitely take another look at it if everybody agrees that I'm wrong.

    For some reason not letting me quote or even mention others...getting some kind of link error. Thanks for your input regardless.
    You should probably re-read the talent, the 40% buff reduction doesn't apply to Mind Blast only Mind Sear, Mind Spike, and Shadow Word: Death.
    Pew Pew Pow Pow Bam Pop Smack

  8. #8
    Just did 27.5k on H Butcher and 28.3k on H Kargath with the altered rotation. Pretty happy with it, thanks guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Zlebar View Post
    You should probably re-read the talent, the 40% buff reduction doesn't apply to Mind Blast only Mind Sear, Mind Spike, and Shadow Word: Death.
    ...I'm blind. That's embarassing. Thanks :P
    Last edited by Regia; 2015-02-17 at 11:40 PM.

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