Will Blizzard every come up with good raid instance

[Tojara]

^ this there are tons of fights without adds that were great today i feel like every boss needs adds to be "interessting" to me its boring as fuck i'd rather master machanics then add priority

Half of those fights he listed actually have adds on them lol.

I don't see how mastering add mechanics is any different than mastering boss mechanics. Either way you have to master...mechanics?

I won't defend Blizzard on every encounter they have made, but not every encounter (even today) is the same. You have a decent mixture of adds and those that just present you with a boss.

This isn't even a new phenomenon either, it's not like past encounters had less add centric encounters as opposed to today. Simply put encounters as a whole, both single boss and those with adds have way more going on.

MC/Onyxia - Everyone of those encounters except Magmadar, Geddon, and Shazzrah had adds.
Blackwing Lair - Almost every single encounter was just a boss, except for the first and the last one. I wouldn't call the drakes 'engaging' bosses, sans Firemaw.
AQ40 - Skeram (depends how you define it) and Huhuran are the only encounters in here without adds.
Naxxaramas - 15 bosses. Patchwerk, Grobbulus, Loatheb, and Sapphiron were the only ones without adds.
ZG/AQ20 - Littered with add bosses, only a couple in AQ20 didn't have them.

TBC

Karazhan - Too many to list, but pretty even mix.
Gruul's Lair - No add bosses, as I assume people don't consider council bosses adds. Although you did have to deal with the warlock ogres pet!
Magethridon's Lair - First phase was entirely adds.
Tempest Keep - Every single boss in here except the Void Reaver boss had adds, and a lot of them.
SSC - All bosses except Leotheras (although there was an add component) and the Council boss (hunter pets) had adds.
Hyjal - Lots of single target bosses here, although honestly the instance itself was one giant trash pull.
Black Temple - Lots of single target bosses here, except for Illidan, Shade of Akama and Teron Gorefiend (depending if you count the actually hard mechanic as adds)
Sunwell - Kalecgos, Brutallus and Twin Eredar were single target, the other 3 were add fights.

I won't go through the rest as it pretty much illustrates my point. Yes there have been solely 'boss only' encounters, but it's not like there was a time and period in this game were it was only a single boss to worry about. Through the games history, even early history there has been adds present in one shape or another and that hasn't changed as of recently.

I think a lot of it's a whine to be honest. Regardless of whether or not adds play a part in an encounter, I think a lot of people just want fairly straight forward bosses with very little mechanics. Most encounters, even in Vanilla and TBC have heavily favored adds, and they still favor add encounters to this day. It's never changed. Most of the memorable encounters feature adds for a variety of a reasons, including making encounters more difficult. Most of the time we are storming a giant fortress, it doesn't make sense gameplay or lore (lolore) wise for it to be a boss to be by themselves and not have legions at their command.

[DemoBytom]

Add-less fights (mostly normal mode, mind you, HC/Mythic might vary)

Mogushan Vaults:
Stone Guards
Feng

Terrace of Boring Springs
Protectors (? I don't remember lol.. I think there's no adds?)

Heart of Fear:
Imperial Vizier Zor'lok
Blade Lord Ta'yak

ToT:
Jon'Rokh
Council (if you do it fast and kill Sul before his empowerment)
Non heroic Maegara.
Iron Qon

SoO:
Iron Jug
Malkorok

Highmaul:
Non mythic Butcher
I'd say Tectus (he splits, I wouldn't call them adds)
Twin Ogron

Blackrock foundry:
Gruul
Oregorger
Hans and Franz
Kromog (unless you count grasping hands?)



There's quite a few add-less fights in last few raid instances.. >.>'

[Temp name]

Add-less fights (mostly normal mode, mind you, HC/Mythic might vary)

Mogushan Vaults:
Stone Guards
Feng There are adds on heroic

Terrace of Boring Springs
Protectors (? I don't remember lol.. I think there's no adds?) On heroic there is

Heart of Fear:
Imperial Vizier Zor'lok Heroic has adds.
Blade Lord Ta'yak

ToT:
Jon'Rokh
Council (if you do it fast and kill Sul before his empowerment) So if you zerg it, there's no adds. Still technically has adds.
Non heroic Maegara.
Iron Qon Not sure, heroic the dogs are all up at the same time

SoO:
Iron Jug
Malkorok Heroic has adds

Highmaul:
Non mythic Butcher
I'd say Tectus (he splits, I wouldn't call them adds) When 8 of them are up? Adds I'd say
Twin Ogron

Blackrock foundry:
Gruul
Oregorger
Hans and Franz
Kromog (unless you count grasping hands?)



There's quite a few add-less fights in last few raid instances.. >.>'

Depends how you define adds really. And if you count heroic.

[DemoBytom]

Depends how you define adds really. And if you count heroic.

as i said in FIRST sentence - those are mostly normal mode fights, since that's the mode majority of the raid oriented playerbase would do.

[Temp name]

as i said in FIRST sentence - those are mostly normal mode fights, since that's the mode majority of the raid oriented playerbase would do.

Reading is hard, yo.

[Anium]

I know right Blizz has never created a good raid instance...*insert sarcasm*

[Deleted]

I don't have problem with adds. They make fight more interesting.

However I absolutely despise fights like Galakras and Blast Furnance. These have almost nothing BUT adds. It feels like 10-minute trash pull.

[Herecius]

Netherspite, Kalecgos, Iron Council, General Vezax, H Blood Prince Council, H Blood Queen Lana'Thel, H Sindragosa, H Ascendant Council, H Atramedes, H Hagara, H Stone Guard, H Imperial Vizior Zor'Lok, H Jin'Rohk, H Megaera, M Gruul and M Hans'Gar and Franzok are all really good fights that don't feature adds

Megaera didn't have adds? Are you sure about that? Vezax, Blood Princes, Blood Queen, Stone Guard, Ascendent Council, Hagara, those are all really good fights? Are you sure about that? Is that your final answer?

[Dangg]

Also Vezax had adds.

[COFFEEMAN69]

I like BRF but as a feral druid i would have liked for a few more fights to not have had so much burst aoe. it woulda been nice if there were more fights like tectus were the multiple targets are up fr 30 secs- 1 min so i could actually feel like i was useful and my bleeds would have time to ramp up. i feel like operator and beast lord didnt need to have so much burst aoe in them. then again thos are pretty easy fights so i suppose its a fight i can be sorta carried thru. i just feel like my aoe isnt tuned enough for this instance and i really miss the days of wraith were i didnt have to worry if my aoe sucked.

[Tenjen]

your entire perspective on this is wrong. you're overfocusing on one aspect of the raid fights.

Thats now how you go about making raid fights. ignoring something for its own sake is a disastrous way to go about doing anything.

Its about how every element is used. if one of those many elements present is a fight is adds. then so be it. its not about "adds are present", its about how the adds are being used. Different bosses have used them in very different ways.

[Adramelch]

I don't agree with OP, but that said there's been a few fights where certain adds just seem pointless. The small ones on Beastlord, the "small" ones on Operator, the 1st phase adds on Tectus etc.

[Radish Spirit]

^ this there are tons of fights without adds that were great today i feel like every boss needs adds to be "interessting" to me its boring as fuck i'd rather master machanics then add priority

What a weirdly arbitrary distinction to make.

Adds are part of the mechanics of the fight and also have mechanics themselves.

"I don't like adds" sounds an awful lot to me like "I'm a DPS and just want to tunnel the boss down and collect loot."

The small ones on Beastlord

These are far from pointless. During Savage Howl or Searing Flesh stacks from Dreadwing, these adds are extremely deadly. You probably don't notice because your tanks are taking care of it for you, so you think they're "pointless." From the tank PoV they increase the difficulty of managing damage and positioning quite a bit.

[Adramelch]

Pointless =/= easy. The small adds on Thogar are not pointless either (by your definition) since they can easily wipe you if you mishandle the split or take more time to pick them up. It's just that I would prefer if those fights were equally difficult, but without a shitload of easily-killed adds that help the dps meters (and that's coming from a boomie).

[Ryme]

Megaera didn't have adds? Are you sure about that? Vezax, Blood Princes, Blood Queen, Stone Guard, Ascendent Council, Hagara, those are all really good fights? Are you sure about that? Is that your final answer?

Council was good as was princes - I love a council style fight though.

Stone guards was certainly an interesting idea as was Hagara, execution let them down more than anything - in fact, no I like the Hagara fight

[zyniker]

Add-less fights (mostly normal mode, mind you, HC/Mythic might vary)

Mogushan Vaults:
Stone Guards
Feng (Adds on Heroic)

Terrace of Boring Springs
Protectors (? I don't remember lol.. I think there's no adds?) (Adds on Heroic)

Heart of Fear:
Imperial Vizier Zor'lok (Adds on Heroic)
Blade Lord Ta'yak

ToT:
Jon'Rokh
Council (The Female Boss spawns adds)
Non heroic Maegara.
Iron Qon

SoO:
Iron Jug
Malkorok (Adds on Heroic/Mythic)

Highmaul:
Non mythic Butcher
I'd say Tectus (Spawns adds in Phase 1 on normal/heroic, continues to spawn them throughout the fight on mythic)
Twin Ogron

Blackrock foundry:
Gruul
Oregorger
Hans and Franz
Kromog (unless you count grasping hands?)



There's quite a few add-less fights in last few raid instances.. >.>'

I have a hard time calling the pale orcs on Mythic Butcher as actual adds in that you don't dps them, they're effectively the same as the Flame Balls on Mythic Gruul or the Bombs on Iron Maidens- just there to keep you from standing still and dpsing.

[Arbs]

He wants fights to be Patchwerk/Butcher style. Easy with no movement.

[Seezer]

we need more Heigan type fights. Seeing people fail at safety dance was so fun

Pre nerf Alysrazor tornados were pretty funny too. That shit ate people up.

[Deleted]

Having Every Boss fight in raid with no adds in the fight would make it terribly boring.

Okay, having a boss or 2 in the raid without any is fine in my opinion, but its nice to have those fights that has adds that need focused down quickly in an order.

[fengosa]

I think comparing a fight like tectus to beastlord or blast furnace is odd. Completely different fights and the adds serve very different purposes. I'm not sure I'd call any of those fights add fights in the traditional sense either especially compared to something like Thogar. Beastlord is the closest but even those adds don't really define the fight in my mind. I'm sure classes that pad the meter with the beasts think otherwise.