Resto shaman crit vs multi?

[Joozt]

I know since I am aiming for mythic stats prio will be int > spi > mastery > haste

I noticed that a lot of our gear in BRF has multistrike on it rather than crit.

Also taking the set bonus into account more chain heals == more proc's I am wondering if multi strike at this point isn't a better stat than crit?

Of couse more crit == more mana back so this might also result in more chain heals casted

More multi strike can cause more CH casts and thus also make the set proc more often

I 'm curious what you guys think about this

[Irisel]

I'm just sad Resurgence doesn't proc from multistrike. I wonder why, actually.

[Chucksauce]

I know since I am aiming for mythic stats prio will be int > spi > mastery > haste

I noticed that a lot of our gear in BRF has multistrike on it rather than crit.

Also taking the set bonus into account more chain heals == more proc's I am wondering if multi strike at this point isn't a better stat than crit?

Of couse more crit == more mana back so this might also result in more chain heals casted

More multi strike can cause more CH casts and thus also make the set proc more often

I 'm curious what you guys think about this

They're actually so close, they're considered equal. Multi has more potential throughput(less chance to overheal) but crit has resurgence. So for pure thoughput, pick multi. Want some mana return on top? Pick crit.

[Joozt]

I gues you just need a balance but what do you guys think about the set bonus?

and crit vs multi

[-Etna-]

Personally, I prefer crit oveR MS. I like the mana return and crit is more fun than MS no matter what class/spec I am playing. But that's my opinion. If MS was 1000x better than crit, sure, I'd be aiming for it over crit. But there really isn't much option with how bad the itemization has been this xpac. I think there are too many stats. I would love if they totally got rid of versatility. That's the most boring stat of them all.
I remember seeing a blue post saying that basically yes, players are sacrificing some damage for versatility. But then I think; well sure they have some versatility on their gear. There are hardly any options to get rid of it. The mail apexis gear for example, 4/5 items have versatility on it.
I just wish MS did more. It feels like if you don't have something that also says "...and their/its multi-strikes..." that's worth proccing, then it's just a really crappy crit roll.
But that's my opinion. I aim for a balance of Mastery and Haste after spirit in my normal and heroic raids and my healing is at the top in a lot of fights. And healing is my offspec, haha. I just fill in when it's needed.
I would say, play with what you like after aiming for the best. There's not many options out there.

[Pur1tas]

So I am not sure about how multistrike works with chainheal. Does it work like the 2-set bonus? If yes I can imagine Multistrike being possibly better than crit. Overall those two stats though are both weaker than mastery and Multistrike that I cannot think of a situation where you would need to choose between these two and actually making a difference.

Overall Crit gives you more mana and is probably the better stat. For Multistrike interference with Chainheal I would need some clarification, weather it would just heal the initial target twice, it would heal every target twice or it creates a second chainheal that heals possibly different targets than the initial one.

[Joozt]

" it creates a second chainheal" <-- this I think..

Ofcouse it doesnt make a big diff but for example the mythic belt from highmaul master y+ crit vs the belt of opperator mastery + multi.
And I see in BRF a lot of gear with mastery haste + multi rather than crit

[Pur1tas]

" it creates a second chainheal" <-- this I think..

Ofcouse it doesnt make a big diff but for example the mythic belt from highmaul master y+ crit vs the belt of opperator mastery + multi.
And I see in BRF a lot of gear with mastery haste + multi rather than crit

If it does create a second chainheal it is essentially the 2 set bonus just that it is a 30% version of that right? So if that is true Multistrike seems pretty strong, considering that it is random when it procs though might reduce the effectiveness of this. Also Imagine a 2 set proc with a double multistrike proc on both chainheals. Insane Chainhealings :O

[Koor]

Multistrike doesn't create a second chain heal. Similar to crit, each of the chain heal bounces has an independent chance to multistrike on the same target.
So if chain heal bounces four times and we have 10% multistrike, we can think of it as if for each of the jumps we have two independent rolls between 1-100, and for each of the two rolls, if it's below 10, we get a bonus 30% heal on that jump. Those bonus heals can crit independently as well.

Overall multistrike is similar to crit, except:

- it has lower chance to overheal (since it's up to two 30% bonus instead of 100%, so it can be either 0%, 30% or 60%)
- multistrikes don't return mana via resurgence
- ascendance and ancestral guidance copy crits, but not multistrikes. According to the 6.1 patch notes, AG is now changed to work with multistrikes as well.

[Joozt]

Multistrike doesn't create a second chain heal. Similar to crit, each of the chain heal bounces has an independent chance to multistrike on the same target.
So if chain heal bounces four times and we have 10% multistrike, we can think of it as if for each of the jumps we have two independent rolls between 1-100, and for each of the two rolls, if it's below 10, we get a bonus 30% heal on that jump. Those bonus heals can crit independently as well.

Overall multistrike is similar to crit, except:

- it has lower chance to overheal (since it's up to two 30% bonus instead of 100%, so it can be either 0%, 30% or 60%)
- multistrikes don't return mana via resurgence
- ascendance and ancestral guidance copy crits, but not multistrikes. According to the 6.1 patch notes, AG is now changed to work with multistrikes as well.

Thanks this clarifies a lot. I didnt know the ancestral guidance change eather.

[Pur1tas]

Okay so in that case I think Crit is better in every way. Even if we consider the Overheal it would create it is essentially free and you get mana back from it.

You guys think it would be worth going back to the 50% Mastery and after that go into Crit style of play some of us did in SoO? Might be worth looking at with full mythic BRF gear the latest :P

Haste still being stat number 2 you would want on items though

[Chucksauce]

If mastery becomes devalued, haste will still be far and away more powerful than crit or multi. So even on farm status, I could see 50% mastery, then going ham on haste, then crit.

Crit is nowhere near as useful as it was last expac. No amount of crit will change that, only blizz buffing resurgence to earlier numbers would.

[Joozt]

Why stop at 50% mastery? most mythic raiding shamans have like 70% mastery

[maizensh]

If mastery becomes devalued, haste will still be far and away more powerful than crit or multi. So even on farm status, I could see 50% mastery, then going ham on haste, then crit.

Crit is nowhere near as useful as it was last expac. No amount of crit will change that, only blizz buffing resurgence to earlier numbers would.

You would need quite a lot of spirit to back up all that haste, either that or dps during downtime.
Don't forget that in T16 shaman had the best active regen, so high haste builds worked. Now active regen is limited to EB which is pitiful when compared to magma recall+mtt. And then on top of that add the nerfed resurgence.

[Chucksauce]

You would need quite a lot of spirit to back up all that haste, either that or dps during downtime.
Don't forget that in T16 shaman had the best active regen, so high haste builds worked. Now active regen is limited to EB which is pitiful when compared to magma recall+mtt. And then on top of that add the nerfed resurgence.

While this is true, remember that haste also increases the hps and hpm of our totems, healing rain and riptides. According to most stat weighing programs, haste has a real possibility of overtaking mastery later on this expansion.

As for mastery itself, like i said, haste builds are more for farm bosses, not progression. Mastery will still be your top stat for progression, unless your raid team is using too many healers or just too much throughput in general. Remember that shamans, more than any other healer, are affected by the composition of the other healers in raid. Method's shaman benefited from this by being the only pure throughput healer; getting the maximum amount of bang for your buck out of mastery.

[Alltat]

As for mastery itself, like i said, haste builds are more for farm bosses, not progression.

I think you're being a bit overly generous there. It's more accurate to say that haste builds are more for looking good on the healing meters on farm bosses, not progression. Even on trivial content where everyone is near full health all the time, mastery is still better: if no one actually drops low then your healing throughput is entirely irrelevant, but that one time someone screws up or disconnects and things go bad, high mastery might turn an embarrassing wipe into a slightly less embarrassing kill. Haste won't. All that does is improve your chances of looking like you were better than your teammates.

[Chucksauce]

I think you're being a bit overly generous there. It's more accurate to say that haste builds are more for looking good on the healing meters on farm bosses, not progression. Even on trivial content where everyone is near full health all the time, mastery is still better: if no one actually drops low then your healing throughput is entirely irrelevant, but that one time someone screws up or disconnects and things go bad, high mastery might turn an embarrassing wipe into a slightly less embarrassing kill. Haste won't. All that does is improve your chances of looking like you were better than your teammates.

While I agree to an extent, I think you're guilty of being overly generous to mastery. If you play expecting for things to go bad on farm bosses, then that really just shows the lack of trust you have in your team. In my opinion anyway.

[Varzik]

All of us aren't so lucky to have a guild that plays perfectly on farm content. I find it's quite the opposite. Raiders with a nonchalant attitude on farm will make inattentive mistakes. Then you have scumbag dps wanting to WCL rank that will turret no matter what. *cough arcane mages cough*

[Alltat]

While I agree to an extent, I think you're guilty of being overly generous to mastery. If you play expecting for things to go bad on farm bosses, then that really just shows the lack of trust you have in your team. In my opinion anyway.

It's not that I expect things to go wrong - I just dismiss the times when things don't go wrong on farm content as utterly irrelevant. If everything goes smoothly on a boss we've done many times before, my stat priorities or talent choices don't matter. Even if I enchanted all versatility and didn't pick any talents, we'd still kill the boss. I just don't think it's meaningful to even consider smooth farm kills when talking about gearing, just as I don't take questing or five man dungeon healing into consideration when gearing for heroic/mythic raids.

[Rusken]

I wonder, would 2 set put Multi ahead with the possibility of extra CHs also proccing multis? Are the extra CHs even capable of proccing multis? If they aren't I'd see crit pulling ahead but if they are maybe multi? Either way I don't think the differences are ever going to be big enough to specifically look for one over the other.