Heroes that don't feel like... ?

[Simulacrum]

You can kill waves all you want, does not matter if you can't kill buildings though. I would say Valla has as much pushing power Naz does. Honestly I find Naz and Valla very akin to each other in many ways.

They're not very similar at all, though. Valla can't do shit without mana, which means that either she pushes, and is crap in the ensuing teamfight (assuming it lasts more than a couple of seconds), or she doesn't push and is powerful in the upcoming fight. Nazeebo, on the other hand, almost can't run out of mana (or health) in lane thanks to his passive. He can push all he wants and still be fully prepared to fight anyone that comes his way when a fight breaks out. Heck, sometimes you want to push as nazeebo in preparation for a fight, as doing so will replenish your health and mana quite quickly if you smash a large group.

He can also use all his abilities to kill buildings (because he doesn't have to worry much about mana), and his wall absorbs turret shots in stead of his minion wave. Meanwhile, valla just stands there auto-attacking. Or she wastes all her mana and has to immediately run away as soon as somebody shows up.

They are also totally different in teamfights. Valla bursts people down, while nazeebo is more about sustained dot damage. She also wants to be in the thick of it, since she's fairly safe thanks to her vault, she wants easy access to the low-health peopel who try to flee to safety, and it lets her land her stun on tons of people. Naz, on the other hand, wants to stand as far away as possible (having no escapes, except his hopefully stacked health pool and sprint if you pick that) throwing crap in the general direction of the enemy team while waiting for an opportunity to trap someone with a zombie wall or use his ult safely. Valla is also extremely easy and forgiving to play, with all her abilties very easy to land (Q just needs to be vaguely close to someone to trigger, W literally can't miss unless you're blind), while nazeebo's skillshots either have tiny aoes, long delays, or both (only his ult is really easy to land, but he roots himself doing it so you still need to be smart about using it otherwise they just instantly interrupt you or focus you down).

I would actually say that valla and nazeebo are about as different as two high damage dealers can be from each other.

[Lesane]

You can kill waves all you want, does not matter if you can't kill buildings though. I would say Valla has as much pushing power Naz does. Honestly I find Naz and Valla very akin to each other in many ways.

When Nazeebo pushes waves he is minimalizing damage done to his own wave as well, unlike Valla. Nazeebo pushes much better.

[apepi]

They're not very similar at all, though. Valla can't do shit without mana, which means that either she pushes, and is crap in the ensuing teamfight (assuming it lasts more than a couple of seconds), or she doesn't push and is powerful in the upcoming fight. Nazeebo, on the other hand, almost can't run out of mana (or health) in lane thanks to his passive. He can push all he wants and still be fully prepared to fight anyone that comes his way when a fight breaks out. Heck, sometimes you want to push as nazeebo in preparation for a fight, as doing so will replenish your health and mana quite quickly if you smash a large group.

He can also use all his abilities to kill buildings (because he doesn't have to worry much about mana), and his wall absorbs turret shots in stead of his minion wave. Meanwhile, valla just stands there auto-attacking. Or she wastes all her mana and has to immediately run away as soon as somebody shows up.

They are also totally different in teamfights. Valla bursts people down, while nazeebo is more about sustained dot damage. She also wants to be in the thick of it, since she's fairly safe thanks to her vault, she wants easy access to the low-health peopel who try to flee to safety, and it lets her land her stun on tons of people. Naz, on the other hand, wants to stand as far away as possible (having no escapes, except his hopefully stacked health pool and sprint if you pick that) throwing crap in the general direction of the enemy team while waiting for an opportunity to trap someone with a zombie wall or use his ult safely. Valla is also extremely easy and forgiving to play, with all her abilties very easy to land (Q just needs to be vaguely close to someone to trigger, W literally can't miss unless you're blind), while nazeebo's skillshots either have tiny aoes, long delays, or both (only his ult is really easy to land, but he roots himself doing it so you still need to be smart about using it otherwise they just instantly interrupt you or focus you down).

I would actually say that valla and nazeebo are about as different as two high damage dealers can be from each other.

They both have a somewhat single target skill, they both have a cone skill, Both of their ultimates are an aoe damage skill or one that does damage and stuns/slows.

[Simulacrum]

They both have a somewhat single target skill, they both have a cone skill, Both of their ultimates are an aoe damage skill or one that does damage and stuns/slows.

These comparisons are ridiculously inaccurate to the point where it's extremely hard to take you seriously. You may as well have said that raynor and uther are the same because they both have line attack skills and stun skills and heals and ultimates that do damage in an aoe. Yes, these things are all true when put like that, but only an idiot would call those two heroes similar to each other in playstyle or ability.

[apepi]

These comparisons are ridiculously inaccurate to the point where it's extremely hard to take you seriously. You may as well have said that raynor and uther are the same because they both have line attack skills and stun skills and heals and ultimates that do damage in an aoe. Yes, these things are all true when put like that, but only an idiot would call those two heroes similar to each other in playstyle or ability.

Not really, if you can't see the comparison, I don't know what to tell you. Their are not that much heroes that are very similar, but this is one of them.

[Lesane]

Not really, if you can't see the comparison, I don't know what to tell you. Their are not that much heroes that are very similar, but this is one of them.

They really aren't similar at all, even if you simplify it. The single target ability is a skill shot vs. a targeted ground spell that homes in on targets automatically. Yes, they both have a cone AoE but Valla's multishot pretty much blankets all of the telegraphed area in damage and will only hit once (or twice with Arsenal) while Nazeebo has 5 projectiles traveling along the telegraph which means all 5 can hit if you use it at point black and thus deals 5 times more damage to a single target at point blank range than it would do at max range, and the total damage is divided into those 5 frogs while Valla's multishot always deals the same amount of damage to whatever it hits. You can also body block it because of that, while you can't do the same with multishot. The travel time is also much longer. Strafe doesn't take away your mobility like Ravenous Spirit does and Ravenous Spirit doesn't really AoE unless people are stacked up, Strafe also requires your body to be close to the targets while RS doesn't. I'm not even gonna go into the Gargantuan vs. RoV comparison because Gargantuan sucks anyway and no decent player takes it, and they're not even remotely close in any aspect, it's the most ridiculous comparison you made. Also, Valla has mobility while Nazeebo has none until he takes sprint. And last but not least Nazeebo's damage outside of Ravenous really isn't that amazing while Valla's is.

[Wildmoon]

Every Support has a heal (Tass' is a shield)

Every Specialist is a pusher

That's just the way it is in HotS currently.

A shield is not a heal technically. It works differently. There are some assassins who are good at pushing too. It's not a rule imo that a specialist and support must be pusher and healer respectively. Tyrande is rarely utilized as a healer.

[Schwert]

Sonya.

But I'm bias.
The WW builds now are pretty crap and I've played WW barbs up until RoS.

[Nikkaszal]

A shield is not a heal technically. It works differently. There are some assassins who are good at pushing too. It's not a rule imo that a specialist and support must be pusher and healer respectively. Tyrande is rarely utilized as a healer.

Yeah you're right, Disc Priests in WoW aren't really healers *rolls eyes*

Tyrande isn't utiliser as a healer because she is underpowered at it and needs a rework. Thats the point.

[Mormolyce]

Yeah you're right, Disc Priests in WoW aren't really healers *rolls eyes*

Tyrande isn't utiliser as a healer because she is underpowered at it and needs a rework. Thats the point.

It's not entirely a fair comparison, Tassadar's shields have a short duration and cooldown and unlike a Disc Priest he doesn't heal in the meantime. So once his shields wear off you're back to the % of health you had at the start. I agree that shields are effective HP though.

[Wildmoon]

Yeah you're right, Disc Priests in WoW aren't really healers *rolls eyes*

Tyrande isn't utiliser as a healer because she is underpowered at it and needs a rework. Thats the point.

Bad comparison. Tassadar is not a healer nor he is utilized as such. He is completely different from Disc priest. Let alone how HotS's support and WoW's healers are not comparable. Tyrande is not utilized as a healer by design UP or not is not the point. If she is UP then it's not by much because I still see her in competitive games here and there.

[Lesane]

It's not entirely a fair comparison, Tassadar's shields have a short duration and cooldown and unlike a Disc Priest he doesn't heal in the meantime. So once his shields wear off you're back to the % of health you had at the start. I agree that shields are effective HP though.

Short duration? It lasts 8 seconds, which is as long as its cooldown. He also has Healing Ward, which is pretty much a must pick.

Bad comparison. Tassadar is not a healer nor he is utilized as such. He is completely different from Disc priest. Let alone how HotS's support and WoW's healers are not comparable. Tyrande is not utilized as a healer by design UP or not is not the point. If she is UP then it's not by much because I still see her in competitive games here and there.

He is actually used like a disc priest would sometimes be used, a hybrid between healing and damage. If you take Tassadar purely for damage, you're doing it wrong, if you take him purely for support, you're doing it wrong too.

Also, Tyrande's healing is mediocre but she's still in competetive because of her other abilities.

[Nikkaszal]

Bad comparison. Tassadar is not a healer nor he is utilized as such. He is completely different from Disc priest. Let alone how HotS's support and WoW's healers are not comparable. Tyrande is not utilized as a healer by design UP or not is not the point. If she is UP then it's not by much because I still see her in competitive games here and there.

Tyrande CANNOT solo-Support a team. I don't give a fuck what support "means" in other MOBAs - in HotS, Supports are expected to bring strong healing. Tassadar does this with his gigantor shield, which counts as healing done. Tyrande's heal is miserably tiny until she talents Overflowing Light, and then becomes tiny again the moment someone breathes on her to knock 10% of her HP off.

Every other Support can be the sole Support on the team. Except Tyrande. Because her true strength lies with dealing Assassin-level damage (which is why she's picked) and building anything other than pure DPS on her is completely fail.

And that's the point of this thread. She doesn't play like a Support in the HotS class system, and either needs a large overhaul OR to be relabelled an Assassin.