Heroes that don't feel like... ?

[Simulacrum]

Did you get to the "I'll use LoL" and stop reading? I said I know they're not the same

I think the point is that LoL doesn't really have healing, outside of teams stacking Heal anyway, but then that's not really part of the support model as much as it's something everybody uses. LoL supports are more about utility, or even just performing their role well without a lot of items (which isn't a problem in HotS), while HotS supports are more about, well, healing.

[Nikkaszal]

Well, support doesn't necessary mean healer nor does specialist mean pusher. I know most part of these roles are made up by healers and pushers but I don't think it's a rule. Tassadar can support effectively with shield,vision or even space control from FF. Tyrande could do it with light heal,vison,zoning from Starfall,stun and global invisibility.

Every Support has a heal (Tass' is a shield)

Every Specialist is a pusher

That's just the way it is in HotS currently.

[Mormolyce]

Every Support has a heal (Tass' is a shield)

Every Specialist is a pusher

That's just the way it is in HotS currently.

Kind of. Dunno if I'd consider Abathur a pusher though.

[Nikkaszal]

Kind of. Dunno if I'd consider Abathur a pusher though.

He is very definitely a pusher

Specialists:
Abathur
Zagara
Hammer
Azmo
Zeebo
Murky
Gazlowe
TLV

All with kits conducive to hard-pushing lanes

[apepi]

Every Support has a heal (Tass' is a shield)

Every Specialist is a pusher

That's just the way it is in HotS currently.

Nope, being a specialist is more dependent on how your abilities work rather than pushing.

[Deleted]

Would'nt call Murky a pusher. Just compare the toolkit to Zagara/Hammer. Pretty big difference between Zeebo and Azmo for instance.

[melzas]

I always took specialists as heroes who do a lot of aoe damage, have weak mobility, are good at getting mercs but in team fights they are supposed to do a lot of damage to everyone but no single target nukes, usually have some kind of summons and/or unusual play mechanics (like murky, aba or TLV). And pushing lanes/destroying buildings is obviously one of perks defining specialists as well, I believe early in deveopement they were called siege heroes, but I guess it was changed so that the name doesn't imply that they are only good for pushing (most specialists can be just as effective as anyone else at team fights if built right).

[Nikkaszal]

Basically every Specialist is better at pushing a lane and seiging buildings than any other hero of other categories

That's the point.

[Lesane]

Did you get to the "I'll use LoL" and stop reading? I said I know they're not the same

You said you know the games are not alike, I said the roles weren't either. What's considered a support in LoL is absolutely different from what's considered a support in HotS. In HotS all supports have a heal (Tassadar shield is pretty much a pre-emptive heal, much like how Disc priests in WoW are still healers too).

Would'nt call Murky a pusher. Just compare the toolkit to Zagara/Hammer. Pretty big difference between Zeebo and Azmo for instance.

The pufferfish rapes minion waves pretty hard and he can play more risky due to his egg.

I always took specialists as heroes who do a lot of aoe damage, have weak mobility, are good at getting mercs but in team fights they are supposed to do a lot of damage to everyone but no single target nukes, usually have some kind of summons and/or unusual play mechanics (like murky, aba or TLV). And pushing lanes/destroying buildings is obviously one of perks defining specialists as well, I believe early in deveopement they were called siege heroes, but I guess it was changed so that the name doesn't imply that they are only good for pushing (most specialists can be just as effective as anyone else at team fights if built right).

Your definition doesn't work since there's assassins who fit that definition and there are specialists who don't. Specialist used to be called Siege heroes yes, and that's pretty much still what they are. They all have some sort of mechanic or ability that makes them really good at pushing, but that doesn't mean all they are good for is that, so they changed the name to Specialist.

[apepi]

Basically every Specialist is better at pushing a lane and seiging buildings than any other hero of other categories

That's the point.

Nah, it is more of how they deal damage and how their mechanics are, not that they can push well.

[Mormolyce]

I personally just think of specialists as the "other" category - unique heroes that don't necessarily fit the war/ass/sup model.

A lot of the time, yes that means they lane well. But not always.

He is very definitely a pusher

Specialists:
Abathur
Zagara
Hammer
Azmo
Zeebo
Murky
Gazlowe
TLV

All with kits conducive to hard-pushing lanes

TLV a pusher? I guess in some circumstances...

IMO Zag, Hammer, Gaz and Naz are obviously pushers (though Zag and Naz are also strong teamfighters). Azmo, yeah probably him too.

Aba, TLV and Murky I'm not so sure about. Though it is hard to judge Murky in his present broken state.

[Lesane]

I personally just think of specialists as the "other" category - unique heroes that don't necessarily fit the war/ass/sup model.

A lot of the time, yes that means they lane well. But not always.



TLV a pusher? I guess in some circumstances...

IMO Zag, Hammer, Gaz and Naz are obviously pushers (though Zag and Naz are also strong teamfighters). Azmo, yeah probably him too.

Aba, TLV and Murky I'm not so sure about. Though it is hard to judge Murky in his present broken state.

If you have 3 vikings in a single lane they can push really well. Abathur can also push waves easily if he symbiotes minions, and Murky has the pufferfish.

[Nikkaszal]

I personally just think of specialists as the "other" category - unique heroes that don't necessarily fit the war/ass/sup model.

A lot of the time, yes that means they lane well. But not always.



TLV a pusher? I guess in some circumstances...

IMO Zag, Hammer, Gaz and Naz are obviously pushers (though Zag and Naz are also strong teamfighters). Azmo, yeah probably him too.

Aba, TLV and Murky I'm not so sure about. Though it is hard to judge Murky in his present broken state.

TLV has very strong waveclear and building tear with proper positioning, and you can push waves with 1/2 vikings while committing the others to your team.

Abathurs push build is very, VERY strong with AoE carapace, assault locusts, mines and Monstrosity

Murky one-shots an entire group of minions with Pufferfish and also heavily damages multiple buildings at a time.

[Simulacrum]

Abathurs push build is very, VERY strong with AoE carapace, assault locusts, mines and Monstrosity

Don't agree. Maybe aganist an empty lane, but anyone can push an empty lane. One hero showing up will wreck your push without them even trying at that stage in the game. For it to be even remotely dangerous, the monstrosity would have to be allowed to gain like half a billion stacks or something (at which point, I'll admit, it does wrek shit).

The only real way in which abathur pushing is "strong" is that it can instantly appear in any lane, but so can, y'know, zagara, or azmodan, and they both do that job so well that if abathur's pushing is "very, VERY strong", then their pushing is downright godlike by comparison. They can even take merc camps in quickly without having to use their ults!

[Nikkaszal]

Monstrosity is used when you know the other team is going to be otherwise engaged eg objective fights. It's essentially a merc camp you can spawn at will that gets stronger with time. Pick a the moment to spawn it correctly and it will go ham.

Abathurs push strength is not based on how well he fights another person to shove a single lane, but because he can be instantly present in ANY lane - that is, he can rapidly select the weakest lane and shove it. Also in late game he can push and teamfight simultaneously by quickly dropping a group Carapace on a minion wave then putting his hat back on a hero.

[Hand Banana]

Monstrosity is used when you know the other team is going to be otherwise engaged eg objective fights. It's essentially a merc camp you can spawn at will that gets stronger with time. Pick a the moment to spawn it correctly and it will go ham.

Abathurs push strength is not based on how well he fights another person to shove a single lane, but because he can be instantly present in ANY lane - that is, he can rapidly select the weakest lane and shove it. Also in late game he can push and teamfight simultaneously by quickly dropping a group Carapace on a minion wave then putting his hat back on a hero.

I don't recommend taking monstrosity ever as Abathur. Copy is much better and you don't need the mosntrosity to push lanes. It's also far too easy to kill. Abathur's strength is constant lane pushing presence regardless, and once you hit 20 you can get keeps in no time without it and still copy for teamfights.

[apepi]

I personally just think of specialists as the "other" category - unique heroes that don't necessarily fit the war/ass/sup model.

A lot of the time, yes that means they lane well. But not always.



TLV a pusher? I guess in some circumstances...

IMO Zag, Hammer, Gaz and Naz are obviously pushers (though Zag and Naz are also strong teamfighters). Azmo, yeah probably him too.

Aba, TLV and Murky I'm not so sure about. Though it is hard to judge Murky in his present broken state.

I don't really see Naz as that good of a pusher, not if you put him against the likes of Azmo, Gaz or Zag.

[Nikkaszal]

I don't really see Naz as that good of a pusher, not if you put him against the likes of Azmo, Gaz or Zag.

Naz decimates waves with W and E, and his W soaks a ton of tower ammo.

He's a pusher.

[apepi]

Naz decimates waves with W and E, and his W soaks a ton of tower ammo.

He's a pusher.

You can kill waves all you want, does not matter if you can't kill buildings though. I would say Valla has as much pushing power Naz does. Honestly I find Naz and Valla very akin to each other in many ways.

[Mormolyce]

I don't really see Naz as that good of a pusher, not if you put him against the likes of Azmo, Gaz or Zag.

I gotta disagree on that one, Naz is a very strong pusher.