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  1. #1

    France highest court declares Valve has to allow re-sale of games.

    So it seems like the snowball that started back in 2012 when EU declared that you must be allowed to re-sell your licenses even if the source is digital bears fruit in France where the highest court of their system has declared that Valve must accomodate the resale of digital games; A massive victory for the consumer rights and right of ownership for product you buy.

    Article about the original EU court decision:

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...you-cant.shtml

    The recent decision.

    https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/...-steam-resold/
    https://mspoweruser.com/french-court...d-steam-games/
    https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20...d-games-eu-law
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    This is misleading. Yeah, it is great to allow to resell games - within steam.
    If you really want to polish that little comma like that, sure.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

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  3. #3
    inb4 ineligible to buy games from steam when your IP is french

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    inb4 ineligible to buy games from steam when your IP is french
    That'll teach the french for not having corrupt and easily bribed politicians! It'll be fine in the US though throw money at your puppet, i mean politician and things always go your way! (not a shot at just the US btw tons of countries are like this, thats why so many billion dollar companies don't pay tax!)

  5. #5
    Welp, guess frenchies can no longer buy games from Steam.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    inb4 ineligible to buy games from steam when your IP is french
    The thing is, this ruling is based on the EU ruling already made back in 2012. So technically speaking the law already dictates that it should be possible within EU region and EU as a market is too large to pull out. France is just the first country ruling that yes, Valve has to follow EU law.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

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  7. #7
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Or pay a measly $50,000 dollar fine. . . . lol

    I think the fine was defined as 3k euros for 6 consecutive months? Valve can afford to pay that for the next 297 years and not even come close to the red. The impact it could have on Valve sales would eclipse that amount by orders of magnitude.

  8. #8
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Oh man, so many games I'd resell, if I had the chance. I don't care if I get £1 for them, it's still mor than they're worth to me now. Hope this comes to the UK soon.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Oh man, so many games I'd resell, if I had the chance. I don't care if I get £1 for them, it's still mor than they're worth to me now. Hope this comes to the UK soon.
    UK not soon part of EU nor the EU legistlation about license resales.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Or pay a measly $50,000 dollar fine. . . . lol

    I think the fine was defined as 3k euros for 6 consecutive months? Valve can afford to pay that for the next 297 years and not even come close to the red. The impact it could have on Valve sales would eclipse that amount by orders of magnitude.
    That's not really the point tho'. The point is precedence. The EU already dictated on this matter over half a decade ago. This is the first time it has been enforced on games. These things tend to be like snowballs rolling down the hill.
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  10. #10
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    UK not soon part of EU nor the EU legistlation about license resales.
    Gods damnit... fucking boris Johnson that mop-haired twat.
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  11. #11
    While this may be good in the short term I can see this being bad in the long term as I can see companies adopting rental models rather than actually selling the game to you, this may then lead to an even greater fracturing of gaming platforms on pc

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Myr010 View Post
    While this may be good in the short term I can see this being bad in the long term as I can see companies adopting rental models rather than actually selling the game to you, this may then lead to an even greater fracturing of gaming platforms on pc
    Companies are already adopting subscription models. It's inevitability. Why do you thing there's things like Origin Access, Ubisoft's new thing etc. etc. Everyone's already moving to the subscription model. This ruling just makes certain that the things you buy you own. Your argument would actually be just extension of your warnings. If you don't own your products then you're already using just a service. It just doesn't have monthly cost.

    Only people against this sort of change would be those who somehow has issues actually owning the products they buy.
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  13. #13
    My main issue is not with ownership but with the possible knock on effect of fracturing pc gaming across multiple platforms each one of which requires a subscription to access, I don't see this as being a good experiance for gamers. I know this is being moved towards already but I feel that this court decision is just going to accelerate this process and take away the route of playing games via ownership.

    From experiance of working in the games industry I know the one thing they hate nearly more than anything is reselling of their products and they will use any means possible to prevent it from happening.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Myr010 View Post
    My main issue is not with ownership but with the possible knock on effect of fracturing pc gaming across multiple platforms each one of which requires a subscription to access, I don't see this as being a good experiance for gamers. I know this is being moved towards already but I feel that this court decision is just going to accelerate this process and take away the route of playing games via ownership.

    From experiance of working in the games industry I know the one thing they hate nearly more than anything is reselling of their products and they will use any means possible to prevent it from happening.
    Subscription model is inevitability. It's sad but it is. Arguments against protecting consumer rights in terms of ownership over products are very similiar to arguments that people who are easily replaced by robots in near future shouldn't get wages they can live by because if they did, robots would replace them. It will happen, sooner rather than later.

    But as long as we can assert our rights we should. If we give in to inevitability by saying "I fear it comes sooner" might as well lay down and die.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  15. #15
    I don't disagree with you there, it is entirely right that this judgement has been made and it will benefit game owners, just trying to point out how games companies are likely to react to it.

    Also to look at the move to a subscription based model more positively, this may cause an increase in the quality of pc games if companies find themselves having to compete for people's subscriptions

  16. #16
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Oh... this is bad.
    Why would this be a bad thing?

    PC games not having any sort of second-hand market is a fairly recent development, as in, the last ~10 years when PC games stopped being sold in the same way as physical copies for console ones.

  18. #18
    Hell, they should do this across the board already. Steam gets a larger cut of the resale price the higher it goes, someone gets a slightly discounted game, and you can get something back for a game you don't want anymore. Everybody wins.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Why would this be a bad thing?

    PC games not having any sort of second-hand market is a fairly recent development, as in, the last ~10 years when PC games stopped being sold in the same way as physical copies for console ones.
    Thinking on the consumer side, it's good, at first. But it may wreck havoc in the industry, and indie developers will really feel this. This will severely damage the sales of those games in the platform, with one purchase, hundreds of people can play the game. This basically means that the developer will make way less money.

    It remains to be seen if users will actually sell the games, but if this becomes commonplace, game developers will be hit hard.

    Not to mention that this might move the industry towards the shitty subscription model and take even more power from the consumer in the long-run.

    This might seem quite harmless and pro consumer, but the end result might be anything but.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Or pay a measly $50,000 dollar fine. . . . lol

    I think the fine was defined as 3k euros for 6 consecutive months? Valve can afford to pay that for the next 297 years and not even come close to the red. The impact it could have on Valve sales would eclipse that amount by orders of magnitude.
    This. Valve literally doesn't care at all as they laugh to the bank. They just pay the fine and continue on.

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