Why i think ashran is a "failure"

[Deleted]

Reminder that i do ashran sometimes and enjoy it to some extend, the zone and the design of it with the special abilities you get in there is very well designed.

but why i think people dont like ashran and why i to some extend like it aswell can be summed up in one word "clusterfuck" i know i know not a pretty word but it explains the issue pretty well. there is waaaay to many people just zerging in one place.

If we look back to WG, who can honestly say they didnt enjoy WG? i played it just about every time i could was so amazingly fun.
but what made this world pvp area succesful?

- They spread the people there (the 3 Towers), (the Siegeworkshops) and defending the fortress from MULTIPLE sides.
- If you didnt do main even you gained nothing.

Now what does ashran do differently?

- 1 Point of entry to main castle, 1 main event.
- Another option to optain your weekly ashran cap, that may or may not be more effective for your faction.

So they have what WG had in form of the captains, arcane prison what have you, but they give you a choice to actaully play ashran and not to which is a huuuuge error by blizzard i must say.

what i would like to see is the 4 bases in ashran gave you some sort of buff if your faction controls them. ogre 20% more dmg, Quarry 20% hast etc. what have you this would ofcause only apply to the faction who lost last time to negate the stalemate factor.

Also, dont limit the ammount of players that can be in Ashran to 1:1 instead remove the CRZ and give the faction with the number disadvantage a Size, Dmg, Healing and Health buff.

So either you raidboss mode dem ants or you gang up on that mofo and cc them to doom while stapping them rear, i personally found this funny as hell during WG aswell specially as blood dk (bow down to your overlord! )

I dunno this is just some of my feelings towards the subject plz do come with input if you feel like it

[ellieg]

Why dont they just make WG and TB level 100. Make it so destroying the towers gives you like 50 CP, and winning it gives you 200. No chance at loot. No WG/TB/Ashran only 200 cp cap. Just something extra thats fun to do, in addition to ashran. People wont be forced to do these and there will be no downsides to not doing this because players can just get CP elsewhere if they choose to.

[Deleted]

Why dont they just make WG and TB level 100. Make it so destroying the towers gives you like 50 CP, and winning it gives you 200. No chance at loot. No WG/TB/Ashran only 200 cp cap. Just something extra thats fun to do, in addition to ashran. People wont be forced to do these and there will be no downsides to not doing this because players can just get CP elsewhere if they choose to.

That is actually a good point

[Deleted]

they supposed to fix it not make it fkn worse id love to know whats going through their heads at blizz, fair enough no cp for killing boss so the pvp comes back into it with ally and horde fighting over events but then to nerf the cp from events is retarded

[solarfallz]

Ashran is a failure because:
a) zerg vs zerg is awfully boring with the modern wow class designs, and its design favors zerging rather than small-to-medium size group pvp
b) there's not enough non-pvp things to do to encourage actual world pvp type of action like there was on Timeless Isle

[Beefkow]

Oh yeah... why didn't they bring back Tol'barad and Wintergrasp? They did that in MOP i believe but wtf... i guess blizzard is leaving the two good ol' world pvp bgs in the dust.

[Illiterate]

Timeless isle was a success, it was fun. Between the boa tokens, random toys/pets, bloody coins...none of that was forced, it was all purely optional. I don't know how they took lessons from TI and ended up with this assram cesspool of fail.

[solarfallz]

Timeless isle was a success, it was fun. Between the boa tokens, random toys/pets, bloody coins...none of that was forced, it was all purely optional. I don't know how they took lessons from TI and ended up with this assram cesspool of fail.

Completely agreed. I think Timeless Isle was amazing. Lots of stuff to do, like tons of rares each with unique rare drops that were actually rare so you had incentive to kill them more than once (unlike Draenor's "rares"), all those fun consumables and buffs to play with, ways to gear up alts, and tons of fun ACTUAL world PVP (ie small groups hunting each other down across a big island, not a snoozefest zerg vs zerg battleground).

[ro9ue]

I didn't think Ashran was too bad, but I was really unable to get a good experience because I would drop to one frame per second in the zergfest and lockup for 2min - at lowest settings possible. Yes my computer is bad. Not sure if I can count that as a fault of Ashran itself or just take it as a sign I need a new comp.

[Gadzooks]

Detailing why Ashran is a failure is pointless. It's been discussed to death since beta. It's not a new subject. Everyone knows what the problem is, and why this "fix" is a joke, and should make them a laughingstock in the game industry.

They're not listening, and they're not going to start now. Zarhym has been blowing smoke up everyone's ass all afternoon, and it's not working. Fuck 'em. Don't play their horrible content, and just laugh at them as they keep getting swarmed with unhappy players. Jump in with your comments, but don't expect them to do anything differently. If their "fix" is to completely remove the point of the entire fucking zone - and accuse players of cheating for doing it ...why would you think they're competent to fix anything else?

If anyone thinks they're keeping 10 million subs at this point, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

[PrairieChicken]

If it did not have "bonus" conquest and purple box 90% of the complaints will be gone. Who thought making a shitty zone mandatory is a good idea?

For reasons why this BG is bad I can't really think of where to start.

[ophion1990]

The reasons why it sucks are many... I think I listed some in a previous thread, not sure.

-You get killed on an event and end up winning it (corpse was looted or you wanted to ress to help out instead of waiting it out, dead on the floor, like a fucking tool), no reward. This makes it so people just cower behind others, wouldn't wanna get shafted out of your reward now, would you?
-Enemy team is dominant? No reward. Alliance was winning events and Horde was too lazy to go for the enemy base, as usual. What's the point in even staying in Ashran at that time?
-Enemy team has the artifact? Unless he's a complete moron, you get dominated/no reward. After all, teams are supposedly nearly of the same size. Having one insanely powerful player on one side heavily shifts favor. Depends on raid sizes aswell, ofcourse.
-It just plain sucks as melee.
-NPCs, NPCs everywhere. Not just that, the knights/wolfriders randomly resetting all the time aswell. Aside from being annoying, makes them very exploitable/ probably soloable by a nearly naked hunter.
-Ridiculous imbalance in the class books. Noone is really gonna deny hunter (for example) has a pretty dumb advantage because of them.
-No auto group feature? Really? No, REALLY?

This is just the stuff that bothers me most, aside from 90% of the classes that can be human appearently being human but that has nothing to do with Ashran, there's more stupid stuff though. I guess it's harder for people to AFK on events now, even though I still did like 1/3 or so of the requirements to win event by myself yesterday...

[Deleted]

If you go for the big picture the list how to fix Ashran is actually quite small

1. Counter population imbalance: Imo the solution to this is to break the Alliance vs. Horde concept. It was bad design from the start that they only have 2 factions as opposed to the 4 factions in Warcraft 3. Imo they should be able to dynamically change the faction you are in. They could definitely find an RPG background for that for example like the "Aldor vs. Scryer" BG that was a proposal back in TBC

2. Get rid of all ways to get rewards without ever engaging enemy players. Remove ALL PvE mobs from the zone and replace the event spots with things like outposts/keeps that can be captured and/or destroyed to give you an advantage for capturing the main base.

3. Get rid of stupid choke points. The whole main road is one big clusterfuck because it is basically choke point after choke point. Very stupid design actually for a PvP map. Just imagine they had designed AB with all bases being along one narrow main road

Actually Ashran would be WAY better if they had just made it a permanently ongoing AV or WG.

[Osmeric]

I didn't think Ashran was too bad, but I was really unable to get a good experience because I would drop to one frame per second in the zergfest and lockup for 2min - at lowest settings possible. Yes my computer is bad. Not sure if I can count that as a fault of Ashran itself or just take it as a sign I need a new comp.

Did you turn off addons, particularly dps meters?

[ttak82]

Why dont they just make WG and TB level 100. Make it so destroying the towers gives you like 50 CP, and winning it gives you 200. No chance at loot. No WG/TB/Ashran only 200 cp cap. Just something extra thats fun to do, in addition to ashran. People wont be forced to do these and there will be no downsides to not doing this because players can just get CP elsewhere if they choose to.

Great suggestion. Just remove the CP capping requirement ad it will be even better.

[Deleted]

I think Blizzard should just acknowledge the fact that they haven't come up with a really good bg for several expansions and stop trying.
Yes, we know the devs love to come up with new content and ignore the old stuff. You are a business, you do what we say because we
pay for it, you don't have the luxury of doing that.

Give the old bg's more prominence. Allow those of us who want too to play old av.

And God, please stop announcing new spectacular BG's which end up as tiny, ugly fails that are immediately dropped by the pvp population
the second they became less than mandatory.

[Flaks]

Oh yeah... why didn't they bring back Tol'barad and Wintergrasp? They did that in MOP i believe but wtf... i guess blizzard is leaving the two good ol' world pvp bgs in the dust.

It's as easy as leveling mobs and object health to level 100 numbers, adding TB and WG to the BG queue pane and making them cross server but capped at 100 players.

You wanna fly over the zone? Get transferred to a non-capped server. I mean, it's hella easy to implement and even easier to make sure the zone stays populated for battles.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Blizzard should just acknowledge the fact that they haven't come up with a really good bg for several expansions and stop trying.
Yes, we know the devs love to come up with new content and ignore the old stuff. You are a business, you do what we say because we
pay for it, you don't have the luxury of doing that.

Give the old bg's more prominence. Allow those of us who want too to play old av.

And God, please stop announcing new spectacular BG's which end up as tiny, ugly fails that are immediately dropped by the pvp population
the second they became less than mandatory.

There's people that dislike innovation. And there's no reason for it. Blizzard has implemented amazing ideas for BGs AND given us redone old BGs as well.

You can't say "Blizzard should just acknowledge the fact they haven't come up with a really good bg for several expansions" and then hate on vehicle combat in IoC and Strand (not saying you specifically but people) or ignoring Kotmogu or the other 2 MoP BGs. And for people who wanted more WSG we got Twin Peaks.

Blizzard does great on BGs. They've been doing progressively worse on the outdoor PvP end though. Tol Barad was salvaged if only slightly by the end. You'd get pretty good battles when offense would try to take two bases at once or send distractors to another base to force the defense to split up. Wintergrasp wasn't THAT much better if people take off the nostalgia glasses. If d actually went and defended towers we'd get great battles. By 3.1/3.2 Wintergrasp was pretty solid. By 4.2 Tol Barad was also well off. But both these bgs had a more sound foundation than Ashran does now.

Ashran though there is no defense for. It implemented the worst of all bgs. There's no coherence to the events and the main battle which would be an easy as hell way to make melee not feel useless to the overall battle. Instead they amplified by far the worst aspect of AV by making it an even larger zerg.

[Rafzor]

Damage buffs were so bad in Wintergrasp sometimes, a hunter for example coming out from the fortress and oneshotting all the vehicles or warlock dotting everyone and the dots ticking for so much.

As rogue tho I always just stealthed next to a workshop so could attack the vehicles as soon as they spawned so they never were full hp as they reached the walls/gates, so I never got lots of Honorable kills if I actually wanted to win. So while multiple objectives are sometimes annoying, it is even more annoying to be able to do nothing in Ashran main road as you either afk at the back or run into everyone do couple FoK and then run away before all the 30 people hit and kill you.

[Deleted]

It's as easy as leveling mobs and object health to level 100 numbers, adding TB and WG to the BG queue pane and making them cross server but capped at 100 players.

You wanna fly over the zone? Get transferred to a non-capped server. I mean, it's hella easy to implement and even easier to make sure the zone stays populated for battles.

- - - Updated - - -



There's people that dislike innovation. And there's no reason for it. Blizzard has implemented amazing ideas for BGs AND given us redone old BGs as well.

You can't say "Blizzard should just acknowledge the fact they haven't come up with a really good bg for several expansions" and then hate on vehicle combat in IoC and Strand (not saying you specifically but people) or ignoring Kotmogu or the other 2 MoP BGs. And for people who wanted more WSG we got Twin Peaks.

Blizzard does great on BGs. They've been doing progressively worse on the outdoor PvP end though. Tol Barad was salvaged if only slightly by the end. You'd get pretty good battles when offense would try to take two bases at once or send distractors to another base to force the defense to split up. Wintergrasp wasn't THAT much better if people take off the nostalgia glasses. If d actually went and defended towers we'd get great battles. By 3.1/3.2 Wintergrasp was pretty solid. By 4.2 Tol Barad was also well off. But both these bgs had a more sound foundation than Ashran does now.

Ashran though there is no defense for. It implemented the worst of all bgs. There's no coherence to the events and the main battle which would be an easy as hell way to make melee not feel useless to the overall battle. Instead they amplified by far the worst aspect of AV by making it an even larger zerg.

I can "hate" on Blizzard for repeatedly announcing a large scale pvp zone then backtracking and producing a tiny, ugly zone that everyone hates. They have been doing this since vanilla, it goes back to Azhara crater (which never even materialized).

We've had announcements about:

1) Azhara crater.
2) Battle for Gilneas (originally meant to be a huge zone), nerfed down to a ab-size skirmish.
3) Tol Barad. A prison complex on a rock. Ugly. Abandoned by popular neglect after cata, by players and devs.
4) Defense of the alehouse. Ended up as Deepwind Gorge, looks like a rural rubbish dump and is also tiny.
5) Tarren Mill vs Southshore. A 100-man zone reduced to 40-man. Lots of fog any time you went 10-feet out of the playground.
6) Ashran, supposedly a huge zone which ended up as the current mess.

Oh, and they nerfed AV into the ground and literally abandoned WG which didn't even exist last time I went there.

You have epic raids ever major patch. We have no truly epic pvp. Someone should get fired for this ongoing failure.

If they really cannot do it, and they've had enough chances, then lets have AV back in its old or at least BC form for those of us who want to play it.

[BoiledFrog]

Ashran isn't PvP because of PvE-Mobs.