Sub opener with T17 2-pieces bonus + several other questions

[michaeljackson]

hey guys,

i got finally 2 pieces of our precious T17. still curious how i should open now since we get more energy to spend in the early 2-4 seconds of the fight.
this was my old sub opener:

10 sec pull timer starts -> instantly pop concentration -> wait until the pulltimer is at 2 sec -> pop S'n'D -> 1 sec left -> pop potion -> boss battle starts ->
start with garrote, then ambush (i use subterfuge) -> wait till 5 cps -> shadow reflection -> rupture -> Shadowdance&Coin -> GO COMPLETLY HAM and spam Ambush with 5 cps evis, refresh S'n'D if it nearly falls off and use a last ambush when Shadowdancebuff is less than 1 sec -> start normal rota

with the 60 energy from the 2-set bonus i dont really know how to use it efficiently
my best guess (duh) would be to spend a 2nd ambush instead of waiting for 5 cps at the start of the fight then wait until our energybar hits 60 -> shadow reflection -> rupture -> shadowdance+trinkets -> see above

did someone simulated or experienced better results such as these mentioned above? for example drop garrote and use 3 ambushes?

now i got a couple of other questions:
- i just got humming blackiron trigger hc trinket. i use Coin+Scales hc. simcraft tells me to drop the coin but i still think that the power of the coin+shadowdance is still superstrong
- i farmed daily profession cooldowns materials to theoretically craft the stone of fire. is it still viable for sub rogues since the mastery affix got changed to versatility? if its still worth it which trinkets should i use as a sub rogue? humming iron trigger hc+ stone of fire? i got this pool of trinkets: scales hc, captive micro abrrr mystic, gruul trinket hc, coin, humming iron trigger hc
- glyph of vanish and subterfuge got "fixed". is it still stronger than glyph of disapperance and shadowfocus? if not how does it change the sub opener-rota?
- i use anticipation instead of mark. is this a strong dps loss? i cannot imagine that someone spend EVERY combopoint efficiently without anticipation.

i am sorry for my spelling mistakes, i am not a native speaker but i will be thankful to every reply

[Rosvall]

(-10)Premed -> (-1)SnD + Prepot -> Garrote -> Trinkets+SR -> Ambush -> Rupture -> Dance.

So a bit of argumentation for my cause:
You want to premed around 10 seconds before you pull, because after 10 seconds your combo points start to decay and become wasted. You also don't want to use Premed to late, since then you might miss out on a second use during dance.

The SnD + Prepot I guess is pretty self explanatory.

Open with garrote has been simulated to be slightly ahead, mind extremely slightly. The main reason is quicker SV and the DPE of garrote vs. unSV'ed ambush being low.

Reason to SR/Trinket right after garrote and before your first ambush is that due to the 2 set piece, you'll always get at least equal amount of ambushes in during SR. Also, SR's rupture doesn't proc with SV and get shortened down, thus at times the 1 sec GCD will make it so you can refresh rupture after SR stops copying.

Reason for the first ambush before dance is to drain energy so to not overflow on 2 set proc for dance.


Short story: How you do your opener isn't really that important. All openers are really close in dps.

- i just got humming blackiron trigger hc trinket. i use Coin+Scales hc. simcraft tells me to drop the coin but i still think that the power of the coin+shadowdance is still superstrong

Simcraft uses coin together with Shadowdance, so to the best of our knowledge; Simcraft is right.

- i farmed daily profession cooldowns materials to theoretically craft the stone of fire. is it still viable for sub rogues since the mastery affix got changed to versatility? if its still worth it which trinkets should i use as a sub rogue? humming iron trigger hc+ stone of fire? i got this pool of trinkets: scales hc, captive micro abrrr mystic, gruul trinket hc, coin, humming iron trigger hc

Here's a list for trinkets: http://i.imgur.com/cfJRR7Y.png
From your pool, it seems like: Coin+Humming Iron Trigger is the way to go.

- glyph of vanish and subterfuge got "fixed". is it still stronger than glyph of disapperance and shadowfocus? if not how does it change the sub opener-rota?

Glyph of disappearance is not available for subletly; only combat and assassination can use it.
Check out this: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post32482022
Subter + Vanish still best.

For the sub opener, without 2T17, you basically ignore Subterfuge. With 2T17, you can get an extra ambush "for free" as I wrote above. If you're going with Shadow focus, I assume that you need to dump energy in opener somewhere else, but I have not simmed this.

- i use anticipation instead of mark. is this a strong dps loss? i cannot imagine that someone spend EVERY combopoint efficiently without anticipation.

It is a DPS loss to have Anticipation over Mark on a Patchwerk fight. It's not something extreme, but it is a non-negligible difference even if you overflow sometimes. You can play around it very well and learn to not lose combo points. Though, it requires quite some focus and practice.

[michaeljackson]

thx man. all question answered. i am happy