Oregorger Mythic tipps

[Deleted]

Any videos using this strategy apart from the ones at reddit post?

[Libretto]

Nothing wrong with having a set positioning and crate kill strategy, but it's not necessary if you have someone vocal doing calls with raid markers down at his roll end positions. We more or less yolo'ed phase 2 and killed the boss 3 weeks ago in something like 13 pulls doing it. Phase 2 is mostly just "don't get hit in the face by the boss or multiple waves of fire" and "don't run off by yourself into africa out of LOS of every healer".

[dinth]

At first I was against using the strategy in the picture that was posted, I thought it would cause more issues than it solved by trying to control his path and holding dps etc, but after a few kills using the strat I've come around on it. It certainly works beautifully when executed right.

[kneezy]

hey! check out my guilds mythic oregorger kill, i'm the raid leader of this group and we killed it with a 91st percentile on mechanics and only one death in the very last phase, if you listen to my calls you can clearly understand our thought process and you'll see the strategy we used to completely control the boss, resulting in him ending where we want him to at the end of each phase 2.

you can see the video's on twitch ( search for miss_peelornoheal, she records our kills ) or look up bench core vs mythic oregorger on youtube.

[Dracodraco]

Except it's not, it is teaching your raiders nothing, they are blindly following the diagram. The 4-corners strategy teaches alertness and personal responsibility. There is nothing wrong per se with trying to control everything in a fight, but I'd take a bunch of '4-corners' alert & adjusting-on-the-fly raiders over the 'look at the diagram 5C. next we execute step 28 of the 50-step plan' raiders anytime. '4-corners' will adjust better when unexpected happens, will give more productive pulls while the strategy is still being formulated and will solve the problems I may not be aware of.

There is also the second part in it - taking more personal responsibility and beating the encounter is more fun. People will be more happy and burn out slower when they had the freedom to improvise (or not improvise), to overcome the adversity in their way, to reach new personal heights when unexpected happened. It is just more memorable, more fun when shit was hitting the fan and you did it anyway - and fun, bonding & memories is why most people play.

This is just foolish. I tried going over your previous posts to see if I could find any indication what guild you were in, but you've done a decent job at remaining anonymous. In one of the previous posts though, you state that you are the part of your officer team that does well at "developing" (read: Ripping off) strategies, and looking through logs etc... And if you consider yourself that, then you'd know that having set strategies is absolute key. This is mythic we're talking about - not heroic, just to get everything clear here. You can expect your raiders to be relatively competent if they're doing a mythic boss that (out of the total in the tier, 17) is probably sitting at around a #7, in terms of difficulty, out of 17.

Having fun and a laugh and resorting to letting people fend for themselves is all fine and good in normal/heroic, where one fuckup doesn't cause the entire raid to wipe. On mythic, I'd rather have a bunch of raiders that can execute a 50 step plan to perfection if they are given a 50 step plan, than a bunch of people who can improvise, but need multiple attempts to figure things out that are hitting them. I would genuinely love to see your kill video from Thogar mythic, because that's a fight where the whole "50 step plan" is probably most relevant in this entire tier - I genuinely wish you good luck if you intend to tackle that encounter with a "just dodge the trains and don't get hit by shit"-approach, because it's just not doable, with the specific timings and movements required. Oregorger is a watered down version of this, and is actually pretty good training, as he too is entirely predictable.

For people looking for actual advice:

http://i.imgur.com/IoUUuEI.png

this is by far the simplest, and easiest strat I have found. The second time around, you will be under heavy fire from the exploding waves of shrapnel as you are killing off box #4 and moving down to 5/6/7, but a single raid CD (usually a healing tide for us) is enough to keep everyone alive.

As a bonus note, we leave hunters/boomkins/mages/spriests (depending on what our setup is) to kill boxes 6 and 7, as they can all avoid oregorger even if he's comming straight for them as they're slow - you can blink through the boss, and use various immunities.
As soon as you hit the corner at 6, you send your entire raid minus 3-4 dps and 1 healer up through the tunnel to 8-9-10, while your hunter/boomkin etc team kills 6-7 (that is what is ment by "normal split").

[Genju]

http://i.imgur.com/IoUUuEI.png

This tactic has the problem, that you most likely wont kill Box Nr.1 before he chooses his first roll. And if he goes left, it screws it all up a bit.

[kneezy]

This tactic has the problem, that you most likely wont kill Box Nr.1 before he chooses his first roll. And if he goes left, it screws it all up a bit.

In the video I suggested earlier ( my guilds kill ) we use the strategy posted in that imgur, and you can see on the second phase two that the boss does indeed roll left, however it doesnt change the strat, raid moves to the "3" position, and as long as the "1" is killed before his SECOND roll, he will roll back through the hallway you initially fight him in, resulting in him then going down the "1" path. check the video for a better analysis of how this is done

- - - Updated - - -

as a side note, I find that you dont have to touch box 7 at all, simply make sure that when your raid group loops back around to "3" and waits for the boss to move towards the "10" and "11" marks there is plenty time for your ranged to actually kill 11 before he rolls into that hallway. this is of course assuming you killed the "1" box.

[kidsafe]

I don't understand why people insist on using a set roll order. Believe it or not, that strat is not the best for every guild, Dracodraco.

--

Like others have said, you can just send everyone to the four corners, with DoT classes get the freedom to run around at their leisure. Put healers all around the center and have them do a two-step dance. That is all. You end up killing every box quickly. He may roll around a couple extra times, but that doesn't matter because the roll phase is easier to heal unless people are being retarded about slag explosions. Most ranged can still easily DPS Oregorger during that phase.

Just keep healers around the middle with your ranged splitting evenly around the outside. Everyone travels through the middle using the same pattern and only enters/exits the outside lanes the same way Oregorger does. It's very easy to teach people how to dance between the two optional safe spots on the middle track. Ranged DPS can dance in two other safe spots on the outside track as well and get triaged every once in a while by healers in the middle.

This is what I posted in my own forum:

Oregorger circuit diagram and the healer oscillation dance.

1) The healer is at position 2. Oregorger is at position B.
2) Oregorger rolls to position C. The healer runs from position 2 to 1, going through Oregorger.
3) Oregorger rolls to position D. The healer returns to position 2.
4) Oregorger rolls from position D to A. The healer does not need to move.

1) The healer is at position 2. Oregorger is at position B.
2) Oregorger rolls to position C. The healer runs from position 2 to 1, going through Oregorger.
3) Oregorger rolls to position D. The healer returns to position 2.
4) Oregorger rolls from position D to F. The healer runs from position 2 to 1.

1) The healer is at position 2. Oregorger is at position B.
2) Oregorger rolls to position C. The healer runs from position 2 to 1, going through Oregorger.
3) Oregorger rolls to position E. The healer returns to position 2.
4) Oregorger rolls from position E to C. The healer runs from position 2 to 1, going through Oregorger.

Everyone else just YOLO. The phase will be longer. There will be more fire. We will 5-heal.

In fact I consider this strategy a better reflection on a bunch of raiders because it means they understand the roll mechanic no matter which way he chooses and aren't blindly following a 12 step diagram. It also allows you to quickly identify the people who don't get it since they should never, ever die in a roll phase.

For most fights I prefer to distill the strategy into the simplest base logic.

[Yax]

Memorise the route you travel in (basically either around the outside or around the inside).
Memorise the Roll number on which after that roll you kill a crate.

For Blue: 1, 3, 4, 6

For Green: 2, 5, 8


Note that Green is killing two crates each time.

Get the crates to 20% and then finish it off just after the roll.



To sum it all up:

When Roll X happens, where X is one of {1, 3, 4, 6} for Blue, or {2, 5, 8} for Green, then kill the crate(s) you are currently stood at, and move to the next crates.



Call the roll numbers as they happen, and possibly which teams should be killing at that point:

R1: Blue
R2: Green
R3: Blue
R4: Blue
R5: Green
R6: Blue
R7:
R8: Green
R9:
R10:
R11:

[Dracodraco]

This tactic has the problem, that you most likely wont kill Box Nr.1 before he chooses his first roll. And if he goes left, it screws it all up a bit.

Which way he chooses is irrelevant. If he goes left, you kill of box 1+2, go to box 3, and wait. Inevitably, he will roll up past 2, and then you can kill box 3 and move on while he goes off on an adventure getting box 1. that's why the picture says "don't kill box 3 untill he's rolled past 2 first time". There's absolutely no issues, no matter which side he pick .

[InkarnateKT]

Any videos using this strategy apart from the ones at reddit post?

we used it in our kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXVcGf2nzoU

super easy we killed in 13 pulls, could have been 12

[Deleted]

Thanks for the strategy. Works like a charm.

/thread?

Sure, you can rely on people being good. Sure, you can split people, expect them to anticipate every move oregorger makes. Sure, that proves people are good in one way or another. But why would you? This strat is easy, reliable, and turns the boss into a joke (maybe the with dps req exception, cause p2 lasts ridiculously short), but it isn't even near an issue, average of 28-29k should be enough. If you're looking to kill the boss, use this strat. If you're looking to see if people are actually awesome raiders capable of going 10/10 or w/e, force them to figure out p2 by themselves.

[Dracodraco]

I don't understand why people insist on using a set roll order. Believe it or not, that strat is not the best for every guild, Dracodraco.

--




In fact I consider this strategy a better reflection on a bunch of raiders because it means they understand the roll mechanic no matter which way he chooses and aren't blindly following a 12 step diagram. It also allows you to quickly identify the people who don't get it since they should never, ever die in a roll phase.

For most fights I prefer to distill the strategy into the simplest base logic.

As I didn't notice this before, I'll just answer:

I didn't say the strategy was the best. I said it was the easiest to understand, and by far the easiest to execute for a raid as a whole that I have yet to see - execution here meaning, lowering the healing/dps requirements the most. There are only two assignments - either you stay at the bottom to kill extra crates, or you go up. You follow the same set pattern every time, and you know exactly when fire will hit you. If you use your strategy, you will face issues with healer LoS (and people having to try and be responsible for both dpsing crates, dodging fire, and getting in range of healers), random fire (because you aren't controlling where oregorger is rolling, and thus you are not controlling where and when the fire goes off), and extended P2's where melee can stand around and twiddle their thumbs.

By all means, if you think using a basic "just don't get rolled over"-tactic is the best for your guild, feel free. You can also go full YOLOSWAGDERP and still easily defeat the boss, because he's tuned to not be very hard to beat. Had this been a dps check on-par with say, butcher/gruul in relevant gear, or if the fire did double the amount of damage (150K instead of 75K hits), you can bet that you'd be prefering the planned-out strategy that allows you to control everything.

But it's sort of the same reason that no one bothers to set up groups in LFR on gruul - would it make it less of a PITA in general, if the entire raid didn't constantly have 4-6 stacks of inferno slice? Sure. Is it at all needed to do it to kill the boss? Not really. Bump the difficulty/strength of the slice up, though, and suddenly people care about handling it properly. Sadly, they just missed the mark with Mythic oregorger entirely, so you can yolo it if you'd like.

I am, just like with the other guy I responded to, looking forward to your thogar kill of a "just avoid the trains and don't stand in fire"-strategy, rather than a 15-step plan that needs to be executed to kill the boss and minimise raid damage/movement etc, though. Ill be sure to watch it, maybe I'll learn something .

[kidsafe]

Don't be daft. Thogar is a completely different fight and almost completely on rails. The random aspect is the easiest part. What all of us are saying is Oregorger becomes easier with a basic fan-out strat. Why use hypothetical damage coefficients to prove a point? What if Oregorger had completely random movement then? See how dumb that argument is?

Avoiding fire with the YOLO strat is hard on Oregorger? That's news to me. Again, basic spatial reasoning results in zero fire damage taken.

[Dracodraco]

Don't be daft. Thogar is a completely different fight and almost completely on rails. The random aspect is the easiest part. What all of us are saying is Oregorger becomes easier with a basic fan-out strat. Why use hypothetical damage coefficients to prove a point? What if Oregorger had completely random movement then? See how dumb that argument is?

Avoiding fire with the YOLO strat is hard on Oregorger? That's news to me. Again, basic spatial reasoning results in zero fire damage taken.

And oregorger is also "almost completely on rails" - he will always take the shortest route to ore. Controlling the ore, controls the fight. Sending him spinning off in random directions and spawning more fire than neccessary is just silly. Also, "all of us"? Referring to whom, exactly? Most people in this topic seem to prefer some kind of control-based strategy.

And I never said avoiding anything is "hard" on the fight, but rather that if you want to minimise the amount of pulls, and getting the easiest kill, removing any and all random aspects of the fight is easier than letting everyone go around doing whatever they want to with a few rules of thumb. It's easier for the healers, and it's easier for the raid as an entity to learn, as you aren't suddenly hampered by your weakest link's inability to understand a mechanic. It's easier to plan around, as you know exactly when the raid will take hits from fire, and it'll only happen once during the entire fight rather than be a constant possibility of having to dodge because of the extra rolls when doing a "YOLO"-strat.

Besides, considering your initial oregorger kill seemed to take some 40-odd wipes, when the normal average is ~5-10, I'd say your strategy was probably flawed. Same with us, we sucked absolute dick on gruul because we missed some key things (like immunities before rampages, bop on high-stack slashes etc), and I'm not afraid to admit that. But when your strat of YOLO'ing requires you to do 4-5 times the pull of guilds with a proper strat, I fail to see how you can even begin to suggest your strat is good for a quick progress kill.

[Tojara]

We pretty much do http://i.imgur.com/IoUUuEI.png, except we kill the one with the ! instead of the one listed as 1. We actually ignore all the ones in the corridor up there completely.

If we kill 1 fast enough it takes him 2 rolls to get back to the initial position, if we are slow it's no big deal. We just whittle the two boxes (3 and 4) to half half until he arrives close to us again. Once he turns to head back to the initial position melee run off and kill 3, 2 and the ones in 7 and 6. #4 is really the important one using this strategy as killing it early chances him rolling down that direction prematurely, so you just have to wait for him to face towards #1 on that chart before killing it. After that we just kill #4 and #5, and melee are typically finishing off 7 and 6 at that time.

From there the raid just waits where he crashes between 2 and 5. Some of us work on the boxes in the entrance corridor, but they can't be killed until he crashes between 2 and 5, and turns towards 2. After that we clean up 2/5 run as a group through the entrance corridor and quickly finish off the last one (which is 10 or 11, depending on spawn locations). We wait in the gap at #3 and he finishes at 100 energy right where he started, and the P1 begins again exactly how it started.

Basically the diagram is what we use, but we actually kill the ! marked one first. The TLDR here is to kill the ! one first. If you're slow and he picks the other direction just wait for him to crash into the wall north of 2, if he picks the right direction randomly or you kill it in time you just do the order I outlined as soon as he crashes in the direction of 3. The only important boxes to do correctly using this strategy is making sure #3 doesn't die before he turns towards #1, and that the ones in the entrance corridor don't die before he turns and faces towards #2.

This boss was a nightmare for us on heroic because we had no idea how anything worked, and wiped like 8 times. Knowing this I took it upon myself to understand exactly how the roll mechanics work and you can game them pretty hard if you understand the counter clockwise, and clockwise rules and how they apply to the inner/outer ring. It took us like 15 attempts to kill this boss on Mythic, and we more or less just run as one giant controlled group. I know that most of my raid doesn't know exactly how the encounter works, but that's fine because you really don't have to make it too complicated. I just call out when to kill the two critical boxes, and they just follow.

There really is nothing random on this boss and it's completely controllable. He has rules to his rolls and you can game them perfectly. The only RNG comes from his first roll if no ore is available, or if he has two short paths to two close ore piles and he picks one or the other. Both of these situations can be controlled however by having good DPS on the first box, and having control over a couple of the box orders.

There are however lots of ways to do this boss, but I think the most efficient way is the one I detailed. The roll count is very low, the damage taken is very low and you get back into P1 pretty quickly. Obviously this doesn't matter a whole lot, as you only have so much time anyway. Whether you do more or less one giant group, 2 groups, or 4 groups, there are lots of ways to do the boss.

[Deleted]

This tactic has the problem, that you most likely wont kill Box Nr.1 before he chooses his first roll. And if he goes left, it screws it all up a bit.

The idea behind this tactic is that you intentionally do not kill the box before the first roll. As long as the box dies before he chooses the second roll he will always double back towards #1.

And for everybody else:



This tactic was based on the video from Line of Sight Gaming.

I'll try to explain the original idea behind the image but this was constructed because of a lack of dps on the boxes. It was made during the raid so it's not the most pretty image :P This wasn't made for a mythic level guild where everybody understands how to boss chooses it's paths. By choosing to kill the boxes in this order you can keep your raiders in positions where they can be healed and more easily directed to the safe spots. With 8 raid markers you can just mark everything and with a single mark for 6+7 and 8+9 it ends up quite easy to direct players. I'll trust dracodraco when he says it works on mythic .

#1 Kill after first roll choice(if he goes right(outside) he will roll back via #2. If he goes left(inside) he rolls back via #10/#11)
#2 Kill after he rolls over #2 or #10/#11 side for the first time.
#3 Kill after he rolls past #2 or #10/#11 side for the time AND he turned towards box #1 to go and eat it. We used a monk to just Touch of Death it.
#4 Kill after #1/#2 is dead. Should be natural with the movement towards the "safespot" at 6.
#5 Kill after #4 is dead(ranged).
#6 Kill after #5 is dead(everybody).
#7 Kill after #5 is dead(ranged).
#8 Kill after #6 is dead(melee).
#9 Kill after #6 is dead(melee).
#10 Kill after #7 is dead(everybody).

By waiting with 1 the slower raiders can move up and some healing could be done if the first phase was wonky. The "smarter" melee would run past the boss and work on #2 and then move to the "safe" area at #3 with the slower people depending on his first roll choice. Because it goes the extra circle the entire group can move past 3 4 5 and the raid ends up on the opposite side of the room when the boss eats #2. Which gives healers time to catch up and it's then a rush to the end where you stand between 3-4 or at 10(move after he hits the wall and gets ready to turn to 10). We used melee for 8+9 because ranged ended up being delayed because of 7. And the path via #5 is safe for the ranged.

By adding #1 and removing #11 there was less of a rush in the end and less chances of people getting rolled over.

Now i'll admit there are issues with this tactic and it mainly comes from gear and practise. Once people start understanding it and they just zerg down every box there are moments where he can choose a different path. The biggest one is probably #5 when #2 is killed on the first roll and he ends up choosing between #3 and #5 after he eats #1. Both are 2 rolls away so he can take the path via #7 and screw over the raid. You just have to control the group early on and towards the end once he is on the path past 3 you just go go go.

Anyways i hope it helps people

[Dracodraco]

The idea behind this tactic is that you intentionally do not kill the box before the first roll. As long as the box dies before he chooses the second roll he will always double back towards #1.

And for everybody else:



This tactic was based on the video from Line of Sight Gaming.

I'll try to explain the original idea behind the image but this was constructed because of a lack of dps on the boxes. It was made during the raid so it's not the most pretty image :P This wasn't made for a mythic level guild where everybody understands how to boss chooses it's paths. By choosing to kill the boxes in this order you can keep your raiders in positions where they can be healed and more easily directed to the safe spots. With 8 raid markers you can just mark everything and with a single mark for 6+7 and 8+9 it ends up quite easy to direct players. I'll trust dracodraco when he says it works on mythic .

It works quite well for mythic - as said, repeating the pattern twice, you'll get hit by a firewave (twice, as there's a bomb in both ends of the tunnel) during the second roll phase when you're at box #4, but that's it; the rest are completly dodged, and knowing when it'll hit, you can easily prepare a tranq for that specific moment (and at that point, you've then completly negated the only difference from heroic->mythic apart from "do more interrupts").

As for the reason for making the strategy, we had no real issues even when killing the boxes quickly (we assumed we had to, so we did) - ranged bursted down #1, melee #2, and if the boss had chosen to roll past #1 on his first go, he'd roll up and gobble 2, then 1, and we'd be halfway down past 3/4/5 already. If he chose to run past #3 first, he'd do a U turn, run down past 4, then 5, then up through 2 and down through 1 (yes, this gave 1 more roll worth of time, but still, largely irrelevant). I can see how slowing down would force him to do an extra loop, though.

[kidsafe]

Besides, considering your initial oregorger kill seemed to take some 40-odd wipes, when the normal average is ~5-10, I'd say your strategy was probably flawed. Same with us, we sucked absolute dick on gruul because we missed some key things (like immunities before rampages, bop on high-stack slashes etc), and I'm not afraid to admit that. But when your strat of YOLO'ing requires you to do 4-5 times the pull of guilds with a proper strat, I fail to see how you can even begin to suggest your strat is good for a quick progress kill.

Funny story, our initial Oregorger strat was precisely what you linked. We switched to YOLO the next night and killed it in 3 attempts. Doesn't matter though, the main issue was our healers wanting to 4-heal it.

How about you stop trying to prove your superiority by poring over other people's logs, using fallacious arguments, hypothetical mechanics, unrelated topics (Thogar) and whichever other tactics are in your "Winning at the Internet" cache? Why try to dismantle others like your attempts with Ellerain or me?

[Libretto]

Just use whatever tactic fits your players / guild best. Comparisons to Thogar are silly since Thogar is a completely scripted fight, there's only one "correct" way to do it, aside from baiting fire rings to specific lanes. You can do Oregorger a number of different ways and position people lots of different places in both P1 and P2. We "yolo'ed" Oregorger in 13 pulls and killing Thogar took our same team approximately 40, which is significantly below average for a first kill of either boss, so what we do worked for us but may not work well for other guilds.