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  1. #1

    Feral - Moonfire

    Good day.

    I'm just curious in case none is coming up with some simcraft numbers before raiding time tonight.

    How will the moonfire buff impact our talent choosing on each fight now? And for especially single target, i could understand that on even 2target fights like hans'gar it may be usable over bloodtalons? 20% is kind of alot!

  2. #2
    It's still a waste of time, stick with BT.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    It's still a waste of time, stick with BT.
    Im gonna assume this guy means its a waste of time on single target. which i honestly have no idea if it is. i would assume so. for hans/frans it might still be bad since u dont have 100% dot up time on the bosses but for iron maidens and twin orgrons moonfire should become the clear choice, no? im sure well find out later in the day when people not stuck at work see this buff.
    Last edited by COFFEEMAN69; 2015-02-27 at 11:56 AM.

  4. #4
    No I mean in general, it's still awful. BT is far and away better, for most fights. In fights where LI is situational, I still wouldn't use it as it's not that much of an increase.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    No I mean in general, it's still awful. BT is far and away better, for most fights. In fights where LI is situational, I still wouldn't use it as it's not that much of an increase.
    Don't listen to this guy he doesn't have a clue and probably have 0 exp playing with LI.
    It's a HUGE increase in damage on twin fights like Twin Ogron, Maidens, Hans&Frans and so on.

  6. #6
    Ok mate, if padding is your game no problem but for majority of classes you play to your strengths and Ferals is mainly ST. I'd rather be pumping as much dps out on the main active boss your pushing and maximising ST damage over using LI on multiple targets.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  7. #7
    ya but i dont think youre realizing how big the buff is. obviously its near fucking impossible to keep 3 moonfires rolling on iron maidens. but 20% buff to moonfire is a HUGE buff on fights like iron maidens. you are right tho since the only important part of iron maidens is the burn phase which u should be single targeting for. using 2 globals for 2 moonfires every 14ish seconds isnt a huge dps loss on the priority target but it is a huge dps increase for the 3 bosses combined also considering moonfire is ranged so u can keep cleaving without needing to run over to the boss. also for Twin orgrons this is HUGE. i wish there were more fights were moonfire was useful. things like bloodtalons isnt really hard to pull off but less micro management would be so much QoL imo. i still think they should just make moonfire auto cleave. its kinda dumb that they teased us with things like a passive SR and bloody thrash but we ended up with the same boring talent that was scraped in WoD and just requires way more attention then something that comes passive.
    Last edited by COFFEEMAN69; 2015-02-27 at 12:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Yeah of course on some fights it's 'huge' but I think it's wrong to assume it's better just because of overall numbers, but you need to really consider what its actually doing for the raid as a whole over your personal dps.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    Yeah of course on some fights it's 'huge' but I think it's wrong to assume it's better just because of overall numbers, but you need to really consider what its actually doing for the raid as a whole over your personal dps.
    Your job as a Feral is to kill the boss quickly, and on Council fights, LI does that better than BT following the 20% buff (it used to only be superior to LI on 100% uptime 2-target cleave and lost as soon as you went to 3 targets or had any downtime), particularly on shared-health bosses like Twin Ogron and Hans/Franz; therefore, you'd be hurting your raid if you didn't take LI.

    On Hans/Franz this week I ranked in the top 1% of Ferals using BT before the LI buff, expect to push myself higher next week with Moonfire.
    Last edited by Cantor; 2015-02-27 at 12:53 PM.
    Cantor

    9/9 gold MoP CMs | 8/8 WoD Gold CMs | 7/7 M Emerald Nightmare | 6/10 M Nighthold

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    Yeah of course on some fights it's 'huge' but I think it's wrong to assume it's better just because of overall numbers, but you need to really consider what its actually doing for the raid as a whole over your personal dps.
    youre right. at the highest level a raid leader will recognize what youre doing for the raid. but if u join a pug and u do 30k on iron maidens but youre doing the most damage to that single boss when he needs to be burned compared to that warrior whos auto cleaving for 50k and still doing almost as much damage as u on that priority boss. the pugs gonna pick the warrior any day of the week. honestly tho i think its fucking boring to have a talent ment for balance.

    the devs have said the reason why moonfire doesn't scale off mastery is because its not a bleed (it does scale off haste but who gives a fuck about haste) i would much prefer they make moonfire turn into a bleed rather then buff its flat damage. it just doesnt feel kitty enough for me. they honestly should have just come up with a more interesting bleed rather then throw us a dot that doesn't really fit anywere except in the rare case of a council fight which u only really see 1 or 2 of in any given raid.
    Last edited by COFFEEMAN69; 2015-02-27 at 12:58 PM.

  11. #11
    @cantor

    Yes, using theory the numbers add up. My point, ignoring your condescension about feral dps is as ive stated before, feral ST is its strongest point and should be what your focusing on, if you want to have high uptime of LI on multiple targets, that's fine but I'll take ST and the burst with BT over LI anyday, if it helps get the main focus down.
    Last edited by Varna; 2015-02-27 at 12:59 PM.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    @cantor

    Yes, using theory the numbers add up. My point, ignoring your condescension about feral dps is as ive stated before, feral ST is its strongest point and should be what your focusing on, if you want to have high uptime of LI on multiple targets, that's fine but I'll take ST and the burst with BT over LI anyday, if it helps get the main focus down.
    The fights where you would use LI are fights where the bosses either share health or it's important to bring them down more or less evenly.

    Single target may be feral's niche but their 2/3 target cleave is also very strong, you'd be doing a disservice to your raid to neglect it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Asune View Post
    The fights where you would use LI are fights where the bosses either share health or it's important to bring them down more or less evenly.

    Single target may be feral's niche but their 2/3 target cleave is also very strong, you'd be doing a disservice to your raid to neglect it.
    The only fight you should use LI as feral in BRF is Hanzgar and Franzok - because you should be doing boat duty as feral with blood talons :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Asune View Post
    The fights where you would use LI are fights where the bosses either share health or it's important to bring them down more or less evenly.

    Single target may be feral's niche but their 2/3 target cleave is also very strong, you'd be doing a disservice to your raid to neglect it.
    RE your last point , cleave isn't LI as far as I'm concerned, effective cleaving with BT however is.

    Soruzi
    Rogue

    Draenor

  15. #15
    With the 20% buff it -should- beat BT on 2-3 target cleave if played correct. Math doesn't generally lie.

    Also Feral should be on the platform, not the boat for Maidens. That is our bread and butter fight. LI should be used on Maidens and the stamp twins.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    Ok mate, if padding is your game no problem but for majority of classes you play to your strengths and Ferals is mainly ST. I'd rather be pumping as much dps out on the main active boss your pushing and maximising ST damage over using LI on multiple targets.
    It's *not* padding on a 2 or 3 target fight, you're just shorting yourself effective damage. On a fight like Maidens, if you are *just* focusing one and "pumping" all of your resources into one target- you're making the raid effectively work that much harder to keep the other two's health levels comparable.

    If the bosses share a health pool and you are only focusing on one-again you're making your raid work harder because you could be effectively "doubling" your damage output- making the boss die much faster.

    ALL other dps classes dot up multiple targets- including other ST stong classes. Stop using "Feral is great at ST damage" as your scapegoat for lazy gamplay. Our Niche is St *and* 2-3 target cleave.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TivookEU View Post
    Ok mate, if padding is your game no problem but for majority of classes you play to your strengths and Ferals is mainly ST. I'd rather be pumping as much dps out on the main active boss your pushing and maximising ST damage over using LI on multiple targets.
    He said Twin Ogrons. Do you know how the fight works? "Padding" kappa

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tóny View Post
    Don't listen to this guy he doesn't have a clue and probably have 0 exp playing with LI.
    It's a HUGE increase in damage on twin fights like Twin Ogron, Maidens, Hans&Frans and so on.
    And that's a HUGE exaggeration. Before the nerf it was questionable at best on Hans & Franz and on Maidens its only a mild gain if you aren't doing boat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    On Hans/Franz this week I ranked in the top 1% of Ferals using BT before the LI buff, expect to push myself higher next week with Moonfire.
    Doesn't really mean much, the parse pool is too small, you could probably get top 50 as Claws of Shirvallah on every fight but that doesn't mean its a good talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by FeralSynapse View Post
    Also Feral should be on the platform, not the boat for Maidens. That is our bread and butter fight. LI should be used on Maidens and the stamp twins.
    We're literally the best spec for boats, our burst is exceptional and our utility is unrivaled. The truth is we're extremely good at both, it depends what your raid wants.


    Druid / Demon Hunter SimulationCraft Maintainer

  18. #18
    just used moonfire cat on maidens, worked like a charm

  19. #19
    It still looks like LI could use a smidgen more buffing but at least it's no longer useless. I still don't get why Blizzard is making the talent they tried to get rid of the mandatory choice for raiding.


    The other thing I don't get is trinket snapshotting is too difficult but maintaining Rake on 8 targets is not? In which universe?



    P.S. Forgot my twitter login. If somebody asks that question please post any response.
    Last edited by teddabear; 2015-02-28 at 05:20 AM.

  20. #20
    I'm going to have to test this and return with results because all I've seen here so far is heresay. I'll have done this by tomorrow night (within 24hrs)

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