Why do certain abilities reward you for killing blows?

[Deleted]

Since I started playing in BC a constant issue in pvp has been conflict in bg's between players of the same faction who are focused on objectives and those who are focused on maximizing kb's, damage and other stats. The problem with doing the latter is that it is essentially useless showboating if practiced exclusively for its own sake.

Blizzard has been quite unhelpful to those who believe in focusing on game objectives recently. The worst example of this was the introduction of censer of eternal agony. This basically formally legitimized all the kill-stealing and stat-maximizing players and gave them a specific metagame at odds with the basic premise of pvp.

More generally, there are a plethora of abilities which rely on kb's. The worst example perhaps is victory rush. Warriors have no other heal of note. They have to maximize kb's to survive. Even if you want to help the fc or whatever, without kb's your not going to be able to survive long without them. There are many others.

Further, there is a general desire expressed in the community for "balance" in pvp. Kill-based abilities make this impossible, and classes which tend to thrive on kb's tend to be unbalanced. Abilties which are kb-based tend to lead to fundamentally unbalanced pvp. If you get lots of kb's, you are over-powered, as kills beget more kills. If you don't then you are underpowered. This leads to fewer tight battles and more graveyard-camping massacres.

Blizzard could go a long way towards achieving balance by simply removing all such abilities from the game. Indeed, if they really want balance they could actually bring in disincentives to deliver kb's, since this would disadvantage the team that is already on top. But, of course, commercial logic being what it is, I doubt the player base would like it that much so they won't do it. Players aren't willing to nerf their own classes for the sake of game balance they (contradictorily) expect others to give up theirs.

What do you think? Is there some game-balancing advantage to these abilities I hadn't considered? Would you be prepared to see your abilities nerfed if i twas a unilateral cross-class move? Do you enjoy something about them for their own sake? Do you find them satisfying or whatever?

[Terahertz]

I think you're overestimating abilities such as Victory Rush in all honesty. When someone at 30% hp gets a 15% heal (max) from such an ability, you'll still be able to kill him with ease unless you don't know what you're doing. If anything it's an l2p issue for the majority of the cases.

However when it comes to arena they are more clutch and can be devastating. More specifically in cases such as 2s where both partners on both teams died while a ret paladin for example got a killing blow. In such cases the ret pala is capable of healing himself for an unreal amount, giving him a clear advantage depending on CDs used.

[Deleted]

I think you're overestimating abilities such as Victory Rush in all honesty. When someone at 30% hp gets a 15% heal (max) from such an ability, you'll still be able to kill him with ease unless you don't know what you're doing. If anything it's an l2p issue for the majority of the cases.

However when it comes to arena they are more clutch and can be devastating. More specifically in cases such as 2s where both partners on both teams died while a ret paladin for example got a killing blow. In such cases the ret pala is capable of healing himself for an unreal amount, giving him a clear advantage depending on CDs used.

In BG's if you can kill one guy in OP gear victory rush can make the difference can make between 0-5 kills. As a prot warrior the heal from VR was enough to keep me alive while shielding myself indefinitely.

[Fenrkyr]

Which classes/specs actually have this aside from warriors, frost/unholy DKs and ret paladins?

[Rorke]

These abilities are meant to make PvE soloing faster with little to no downtime. Victory Rush and Dark Succor ensure that both Warriors and DK's can mindlessly pull a full room things and can constantly keep chain killing without the fear of either getting killed or sitting down after the fight to eat. In other words, these abilities are meant to make playing a DK/Warrior feel smooth and reward the player for playing aggressively, as those classes should be played in that matter.

That is why they exist and its one of those things that effects PvP because its here to stay for PvE.

[Terahertz]

In BG's if you can kill one guy in OP gear victory rush can make the difference can make between 0-5 kills. As a prot warrior the heal from VR was enough to keep me alive while shielding myself indefinitely.

Vs inexperienced players that might work, but really though. It's not that big of a deal. I don't think abilities such as Victory Rush can make that big of a deal.

[Rorke]

I think you're overestimating abilities such as Victory Rush in all honesty. When someone at 30% hp gets a 15% heal (max) from such an ability, you'll still be able to kill him with ease unless you don't know what you're doing. If anything it's an l2p issue for the majority of the cases.

Victory Rush healing is actually pretty good in pvp if you use the glyph of Victory Rush. Nobody uses it because Warriors generally aren't a good soloing class, therefore indirectly devaluing its use.

Even with that, I can't lie and act as though Victory Rush glyphed or unglyphed hasn't saved my life a few times. I don't feel really guilty about it because I feel as though an aggressive class that earns those kills should be rewarded with health. It's great design.

[tuesday the paladin]

Which classes/specs actually have this aside from warriors, frost/unholy DKs and ret paladins?

To a lesser extent WW monks. Afterlife gives you an orb when you kill someone and a chance at gaining chi when killing something with Blackout Kick. It's a considerably smaller heal than that of the plate classes.

[DeicideUH]

Hunters also heal when they kill someone with Kill Shot. It's pretty good for MM.

[Deleted]

To a lesser extent WW monks. Afterlife gives you an orb when you kill someone and a chance at gaining chi when killing something with Blackout Kick. It's a considerably smaller heal than that of the plate classes.

There are procs on various trinkets and other items which are kb-based also. Surprised no one mentioned locks-the embers you save with shadowburn are critical.

[solarfallz]

The answer is simple:

They want to have a reward for killing people, but giving it to everyone in HK range would be ludicrous. Likewise, any compromise that involved % damage dealt or % chance to get the "kill" would be convoluted and annoying.

[Bushtuckrman]

I'm a kb whore but I almost always get top kb's while doing the objectives

Also as a hunter I'll always mouse over kill shot someone on low hp, free 15% heal.

[Baracuda]

Victory Rush healing is actually pretty good in pvp if you use the glyph of Victory Rush. Nobody uses it because Warriors generally aren't a good soloing class, therefore indirectly devaluing its use.

Even with that, I can't lie and act as though Victory Rush glyphed or unglyphed hasn't saved my life a few times. I don't feel really guilty about it because I feel as though an aggressive class that earns those kills should be rewarded with health. It's great design.

I've used it for years, don't play competitively though. At the peak of its power (wotlk-cata somewhere) it could keep you alive vs many targets.

[Yvaelle]

Hunters also heal when they kill someone with Kill Shot. It's pretty good for MM.

Survival has a version as well - they regenerate 15% of max hp over 6 seconds or something after killing someone (by any means).

[xindralol]

back in the day you had downtime as a dps class while questing. you had to drink for mana as a mage, you had to use first aid to heal yourself and/or eat for hp as a warrior and so on. then in tbc, to reduce those downtimes, they used the talent system and/or abilities like that heal thing for warriors or in wotlk the 2% heal from the heirloom trinket. now since there's zero downtime no matter what you do, those things are irrelevant so they gave it like extra damage and so on.

[Sunnydruid]

Vs inexperienced players that might work, but really though. It's not that big of a deal. I don't think abilities such as Victory Rush can make that big of a deal.

This.

VR isn't an OP PvP ability. If you really can't kill a warrior because of VR then you aren't as good at your class as you might think you are. At that point it's about being a good player not the class mechanics. The ability is more for PVE than anything, it always has been. Nobody glyphs victory rush because it's not even worth it so it's not a big deal.