Loot system needs changing

[Deleted]

Or an alternative method for gearing up needs to be implemented.

The fact that getting loot is determined by RNG in most cases (World bosses, Raid finder, etc) is so stupid. I'm sick of gearing up being down to complete luck. Every time I try my hardest and do really well and almost always get nothing in return, where some guy can just sit there auto attacking and get an insane upgrade, it's BS!

So here's my pitch, bring back valor points which can purchase heroic ilvl gear. Ty

[Geckoo]

Or an alternative method for gearing up needs to be implemented.

The fact that getting loot is determined by RNG in most cases (World bosses, Raid finder, etc) is so stupid. I'm sick of gearing up being down to complete luck. Every time I try my hardest and do really well and almost always get nothing in return, where some guy can just sit there auto attacking and get an insane upgrade, it's BS!

So here's my pitch, bring back valor points which can purchase heroic ilvl gear. Ty

I have to agree with the valor point part. Recurrent reward, no matter how lucky/unlucky you are, after X kills you'll get some kind of upgrade.

But i do like the RNG part of loot most of the time, if we could get whatever we want easily it would become boring too fast. It's all about having a good balance between luck & frustration. The recurrent reward helps keeping that balance, but they took it away so...

[Puri]

I also agree on the valor part. They took it out as means to get gear, but instead of taking it the entire way they implemented apexis crystals that do exactly the same.
Instead of meaningless gold the loser bag should simply contain apexis crystals.

[Moogie423]

I'd have to agree with needing valor back. The apexis system they implemented feels like a grindy system from a F2P game that would normally have cash shop option to bypass part or all of the grind, yet this being WoW, doesn't have that so it's just the mindless F2P grind. The lack of a reasonable valor point style system was part of the reason that I unsubbed in December. Not only was it a way to slowly get gear, but it also gave a reason to run 5 mans more than once in the entire expansion.

[Terridon]

Apexises is pretty terrible because it require you to do it every day. Not like the valor, which were easier if you did it every day, but could be done one day pr week.
I rather spend longer time grinding shit in one day, then having to do the chore every day. If they just made it into something you could stack up at 7 times at any given point of the week i would be a happy turtle.

[Deleted]

Don't agree with Valor for heroic ilvl gear, unless you can only obtain Valor in Normal raids.

Different solution: Luck protection. Every time you don't get an item using PL or Bonus Rolls, your chance to obtain one on the next loot eligible kill is increased by xx%.

[Grimbold21]

Yeah, only then we have the people here who say "Epic gear should be earned in an epic environment"

And what's the problem with that? I find it very silly that, as a non raider, i already have 3 or 4 Mythic quality epics....i mean, what?!

[motorhue]

Don't agree with Valor for heroic ilvl gear, unless you can only obtain Valor in Normal raids.

Different solution: Luck protection. Every time you don't get an item using PL or Bonus Rolls, your chance to obtain one on the next loot eligible kill is increased by xx%.

Don't they have luck protection of some form today? Thought I read that somewhere..

[4dahorde]

Look, another person that wants as much as possible for as little work as possible. If there was not RNG you would have everything you wanted within a week or 2. Then what? You would be on here complaining that there was nothing to do, and no way to upgrade what you do have. Some people will never be happy.

There are PLENTY of ways to gain gear...RNG is a part of MMOs...always has been, always will be. Don't like it? Play another type of game.

[Mormolyce]

I didn't mind the VP upgrade system really. Though the rate of upgrades in WoD is so high it might be a pita.

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Don't they have luck protection of some form today? Thought I read that somewhere..

I believe it's been in the game for several expansions.

IMO one of Blizzard's most stupid missteps is not making it visible to players. It'd take almost no extra work and eliminate a LOT of QQ.

[Xaelai]

Or an alternative method for gearing up needs to be implemented.

The fact that getting loot is determined by RNG in most cases (World bosses, Raid finder, etc) is so stupid. I'm sick of gearing up being down to complete luck. Every time I try my hardest and do really well and almost always get nothing in return, where some guy can just sit there auto attacking and get an insane upgrade, it's BS!

So here's my pitch, bring back valor points which can purchase heroic ilvl gear. Ty

Apexis Crystals = Valor Points.

No, seriously.

No RNG involved (unless you buy re-roll tokens).

Before in MoP: 875VP for a current raid-quality Cape, you got what again, a 1,000 weekly limit and you could get 150 a day max or something like that?

Now in WoD: 3,000 + 9,000 Apexis for a current raid-quality cape (well, not quite normal raid quality but not far from it). That's 12,000 Apexis or 15 dailies worth. BUT, there are Invasions and now you can buy missives. In ~45-60min I can go out and get ~4k Apexis by buying several missives and doing them all in one go-around and then turn them all in at the garrison.

If anything, gearing up is faster and easier than it was by doing VP. Apexis is not weekly-limited with a hard cap; it all has to do about your Garrison Resource income. But if you have enough followers on 645+ and if you have a Trading Post or Lumber Mill... you shouldn't have any trouble at all buying 2-3 missives per day not counting follower missions. Sometimes follower missions can give you 1200 (6 missives worth!) if they ask for the right counters and you got a couple NPCs with Scavenger.

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Apexises is pretty terrible because it require you to do it every day.

Absolutely false.

They have missives now you can buy from the quartermaster for 200GR that allow you to do as many as you want until you run out of GR. The missives act just like the daily and you can do multiples at once (but you have to turn them in at the garrison). Make up whatever route you like (personally I go Broken Precipice -> Mok'gol -> Shatt -> Socrethar's for a quick 2400 Apexis) and run with it every couple days. I don't even do the daily unless it is in an area that I actually like.

[Geckoo]

Don't they have luck protection of some form today? Thought I read that somewhere..

There is luck protection for bonus rolls, i don't know if there is some sort of protection for personal loot though.

Anyway, luck protection is there to help with the frustation of a RNG system, but it doesn't get rid of the RNG at all, since you'll never be able to choose what loot piece you get (and that's fine). A recurrent reward system get's rid of the RNG element: you know beforehand what you get... we knew how much valor we needed to get a 4ilvl updgrade, we knew what gear we had aviable with valor and justice points, we knew what gear we had aviable with the different type of badges we used to have... the point is that is good for the game to have something safe that doesn't depend on luck but requires some constant effort for some time. It helps to get rid of some bad RNG for raiders and also serves as a long term gear progression method for non-raiders.

Apexis crystals try to be that kind of reward this time, but they fucked up badly in the way we earn them limiting them to the daily quest and pure chance. Why get rid of valor and put in place a bad version of the same concept? bad devs are bad.

[Deleted]

Different solution: Luck protection. Every time you don't get an item using PL or Bonus Rolls, your chance to obtain one on the next loot eligible kill is increased by xx%.

This is also a good idea.

However at least with valor you are guaranteed to be rewarded with gear after you put the effort in to raiding. It sucks going in hoping to get loot, and if you are unlucky you come out with nothing, complete waste of time.

[Terridon]

Don't agree with Valor for heroic ilvl gear, unless you can only obtain Valor in Normal raids.

Different solution: Luck protection. Every time you don't get an item using PL or Bonus Rolls, your chance to obtain one on the next loot eligible kill is increased by xx%.

Is already luck protection on bonus roll. 10% increase for each time or something like that. 10th roll is garantied to give loot. So if you've had a bad streak of 5-7 rolls in row without loot, you should save the roll for a boss with really good loot.
Don't think they have anything on personal loot currently, but they talked about changing it up overall, so might come in 6.2.

[Paulosio]

Apexises is pretty terrible because it require you to do it every day. Not like the valor, which were easier if you did it every day, but could be done one day pr week.
I rather spend longer time grinding shit in one day, then having to do the chore every day. If they just made it into something you could stack up at 7 times at any given point of the week i would be a happy turtle.

A chore that only takes 10-15 minutes... And for most of the time that there was valor points from dungeons you actually COULDN'T get all your valor / badges in 1 day. I believe the only time you could grind all your dungeon badges / valor in 1 day was in Cataclysm. In WOTLK you only got the current badges from a heroic ONCE per day after that you got the lower type of badges which were the WOTLK equivalent of justice points. In mists it was the same.

[Turaska]

RNG loot is a way for Blizzard to prolong the experience, if you could just buy things from vendors or another similar method a new problem would arise, that problem being "I've got all the loot now, I want more loot blizzard, add more loot or I'll cancel my subs"

[kamuimac]

you have your supplement loot system in for of your garrison which gives u 2 pieces of loot every 2 weeks if you only have follower high enough - thats your "valor" system htis expansion.

[Deleted]

I agree, OP. I seriously want valor and its items back.

But seriously: You can wear three crafted pieces, you can buy apexis stuff...there are possibilities out there.

Mind you:
Crafted viable (meaning on par with raiding gear) items were in game since TBC. I remember Primal Mooncloth stuff had just the same amount of Int, Spirit etc. like t5. You only needed t5 for your above 10k health to raid BT. Besides 3 isn’t such a high amount – you always had 2-3 things you could craft that were on par with raiding stuff.

And apexis stuff is barely a viable option: you need 294,000 (LOL) to get the 6 available 670 items. That’s 326 days or 46 weeks by just doing the daily. For the same amount of items you needed 10.5 weeks of valor, that’s a massive difference even more so considering that the valor items were indeed heroic quality (normal back then, heroic now).

And what's the problem with that? I find it very silly that, as a non raider, i already have 3 or 4 Mythic quality epics....i mean, what?!

If you were a non-raider you wouldn’t hit the requirements of kills to get mythic loot, so you set foot at least 3 times into heroic raids.

[Alroxas]

And apexis stuff is barely a viable option: you need 294,000 (LOL) to get the 6 available 670 items. That’s 326 days or 46 weeks by just doing the daily.

That numbering seems way off. First, aside from the daily, you also have garrison questline that typically offer a "second" daily worth of apexis (800). Granted they aren't very common and you can only do the questline once.

Moreover, you also have follower missions that reward Apexis now as well.

And lastly, despite the nerf to no longer being able to farm apexis in a raid group, you can still do it in a 5 man. Yes it's a grind, but wasn't VP and badges just as much of a grind as well?

[SirBeef]

Or an alternative method for gearing up needs to be implemented.

The fact that getting loot is determined by RNG in most cases (World bosses, Raid finder, etc) is so stupid. I'm sick of gearing up being down to complete luck. Every time I try my hardest and do really well and almost always get nothing in return, where some guy can just sit there auto attacking and get an insane upgrade, it's BS!

So here's my pitch, bring back valor points which can purchase heroic ilvl gear. Ty

You do have valor gear its just been renamed Apexis which can be upgraded to 670. Not to mention three crafted pieces you can upgrade to 680, 4 if you use a shield. there are enough ways to supplement our RNG woes and get raid quality gear. The part about you trying your hardest and getting nothing and some guy auto attacks and gets an insane upgrade is just hyperbole. You have the same chance to get an item from any boss as he does.

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Don't they have luck protection of some form today? Thought I read that somewhere..

They do. People just think becasue its a bonus roll it means guaranteed loot. All it is and ever was was a second chance to get loot at roughly the same drop rate. Gearing up was never meant to be fast. Gearing up was meant to be a tier long process. Unless you were gear funneling, using alt runs, or making full clears weekly, it was expected for one player to fully gear up in that raids gear by the end of the tier or slightly before, not counting those year long end of expansion tiers.

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Apexis Crystals = Valor Points.

No, seriously.

No RNG involved (unless you buy re-roll tokens).

Before in MoP: 875VP for a current raid-quality Cape, you got what again, a 1,000 weekly limit and you could get 150 a day max or something like that?

Now in WoD: 3,000 + 9,000 Apexis for a current raid-quality cape (well, not quite normal raid quality but not far from it). That's 12,000 Apexis or 15 dailies worth. BUT, there are Invasions and now you can buy missives. In ~45-60min I can go out and get ~4k Apexis by buying several missives and doing them all in one go-around and then turn them all in at the garrison.

If anything, gearing up is faster and easier than it was by doing VP. Apexis is not weekly-limited with a hard cap; it all has to do about your Garrison Resource income. But if you have enough followers on 645+ and if you have a Trading Post or Lumber Mill... you shouldn't have any trouble at all buying 2-3 missives per day not counting follower missions. Sometimes follower missions can give you 1200 (6 missives worth!) if they ask for the right counters and you got a couple NPCs with Scavenger.

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Absolutely false.

They have missives now you can buy from the quartermaster for 200GR that allow you to do as many as you want until you run out of GR. The missives act just like the daily and you can do multiples at once (but you have to turn them in at the garrison). Make up whatever route you like (personally I go Broken Precipice -> Mok'gol -> Shatt -> Socrethar's for a quick 2400 Apexis) and run with it every couple days. I don't even do the daily unless it is in an area that I actually like.

You can still go to the apexis quest sites and complete an assault on all of those locations and get the bonus gold/apexis. You do not need the quests to get that. I found that out while farming rares in those areas on non daily days. Apexis is easy to obtain.

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This is also a good idea.

However at least with valor you are guaranteed to be rewarded with gear after you put the effort in to raiding. It sucks going in hoping to get loot, and if you are unlucky you come out with nothing, complete waste of time.

With Apexis you are guaranteed to get rewarded for the time spent farming it.

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[QUOTE=D-angeL;32548367

And apexis stuff is barely a viable option: you need 294,000 (LOL) to get the 6 available 670 items. That’s 326 days or 46 weeks by just doing the daily. For the same amount of items you needed 10.5 weeks of valor, that’s a massive difference even more so considering that the valor items were indeed heroic quality (normal back then, heroic now).


[/QUOTE]

My wife got her Master of Apexis monument for earning 100,000 Apexis crystals 3 weeks ago. It took 12 weeks to hit 100k. If you were not raiding, and not getting any garrison caches, but wanted to max out your gear with as many Apexis items as possible it would take you less than 36 weeks by doing the daily only. Not bad if you do not participate in anything else. Chances are, you and the others saying Apexis is bad and not valor, are getting gear from other sources and would only need to supplement a few items which significantly brings down the time needed. Again, gearing up is not supposed to be fast. It should last roughly as long as teh tier is out for the average player.