Using DKP in Warlords of Draenor; thoughts?

[Monoliith]

Thoughts on using a simple Blind DKP system in WoD with a 90% reset on each tier release?

[JIMM-]

just do what u want with ur guild.

if u have a consistent raid group just make it simple n do /roll.
DKP is great to prevent people from joining for 1 week, take loots and then disappear. It also serves as a good warning signal if someone wants to /gquit when they suddenly decided to spend DKP aggressively .

As long as the gears dont flow outwards u're good.

[SlippyCheeze]

IMO, DKP and EPGP systems are trying to solve a social problem with a technical solution, and that never works out the way you hope it will. SK is marginally better at discouraging hoarding (and better still the less lists you use, since you get no upgrades until you suicide), but either personal loot, MS>OS master looting, or loot council are generally going to work out better overall, IMO.

Just make the rules clear, then deal with people problems like attendance separately.

[Zyranthian]

Thoughts on using a simple Blind DKP system in WoD with a 90% reset on each tier release?

Tried EPGP? Its basically DKP version 2.0, solves a lot of problems inherent in the DKP system. Once you've set it up, and with the aid of addons like EPGP Lootmaster, it basically runs itself too.

[Deleted]

Tried EPGP? Its basically DKP version 2.0, solves a lot of problems inherent in the DKP system. Once you've set it up, and with the aid of addons like EPGP Lootmaster, it basically runs itself too.

I personally have never really seen the big difference between EPGP and a properly set up DKP system (ie, with decay and not to imbalanced point gain), it's just that EPGP is set up like that by default.

As for loot systems in general, they all have their flaws. point based systems naturally tend to lead people to pass minor upgrades so they can stay on top for BiS items or weapons/trinkets etc. Loot council can be very hit and miss depending on how drama prone your guild is. rolling can lead to people not getting loot in a long time, etc.

[Celarent]

My guild uses a system combining aspects of both DKP and suicide kings -- winning a bid resets DKP, so a hoarded total only means an uncontested win of a single item. We also don't reset between tiers, as higher totals in new content are rewards for sticking with it through farming and/or the boss that won't die. Points are earned through attendance and guild-first kills.

The guild has stayed together using this system for 6-7 years, so it certainly works for us.

[l33t]

Thoughts on using a simple Blind DKP system in WoD with a 90% reset on each tier release?

I'd better go with rolling, personal loot or master/council option, if I were you.

[Monoliith]

I'd better go with rolling, personal loot or master/council option, if I were you.

I will absolutely never again for any reason whatsoever; EVER, use Loot Council again.
Had a string of abysmal experience with LC in Wrath and BC and I simply won't be a part of that anymore; even if I'm the raid leader now.

[SlippyCheeze]

I will absolutely never again for any reason whatsoever; EVER, use Loot Council again.
Had a string of abysmal experience with LC in Wrath and BC and I simply won't be a part of that anymore; even if I'm the raid leader now.

Good loot council is the best system possible. Bad loot council is the worst system possible. Unalterable truth: it's about the people.

[l33t]

I will absolutely never again for any reason whatsoever; EVER, use Loot Council again.
Had a string of abysmal experience with LC in Wrath and BC and I simply won't be a part of that anymore; even if I'm the raid leader now.

That's why I've given you two more options that still are better than any of dkp systems.

Although, to be honest, I fail to understand you. I was raiding since BC with DKP, it was a complete disaster. It was absolutely not possible to get any meaningful loot, unless you were with a raid team since start and your attendance was 100%. It was not possible to quickly funnel gear to a needed person. We had to install an idiotic addon, and it took almost forever to deal with item trades after boss kills leading to either raid dealing with thrash packs without half of people who were trading, or raid afking for 10 minutes after every kill...

While, when I joined my current guild in WotLK, it had loot council, and it was like breezing fresh air. Rolling every item took no more than 20-30 secs, raid was gearing equally, everybody were happy. Years passed, we are still using LC/ML; and would never trade it for anything, really.

Anyways, if I were you AND hated LC/ML as you do, I'd recommend you use personal loot or simple rolling. Just don't invite loot whores to your raid and you'll be golden.

[Xargoth6634]

What is this, 2005? Who still uses DKP to distribute loot?

[SlippyCheeze]

What is this, 2005? Who still uses DKP to distribute loot?

The team before my current one did. Well, EPGP, which is basically the same thing, with the "just add X, Y, and Z to fix the issues and DKP is great" baked in. It worked OK, but we saw the standard failure modes (hoarding for BiS drops, players with a pool so deep that they could have anything they wanted, etc.)

Current team is LC, works fine, because we have good people on it and the team trusts them. If you are not in that position I would definitely go with either SK/EPGP (solves the "trust the people" problem in LC by making rigid, inflexible rules that are transparent to everyone -- provided you don't have EPGP penalties applied by the leader without automation, just like paying for gear is automated) or personal loot (same deal.)

SK/EPGP/MS>OS roll have the advantage that they are transparent without the "no swapsies" that personal loot brings, but honestly, you gear about the same rate either way, so if you *really* need a technical solution to a people problem, personal is the way to go: sure, you can't swap items to someone who needs them, but you already had the problem that your raiders don't trust each other to do that fairly and for the good of the raid, right, so... better avoid the drama it can bring entirely when someone sulks because their BiS drop went to someone with more EPGP or higher SK rank or a better roll -- and it was only "a minor upgrade and they shouldn't have rolled" or whatever.

[Deleted]

I'd better go with rolling, personal loot or master/council option, if I were you.

Loot council only works when every single member of the council is always fair, and since the history of WoW raiding there has not been a single guild where someone didn't abuse his power.

When I was an officer I refused to take part in loot council because I know that I can't be trusted when it comes to judging who deserves loot. I value different things then the person who wants to item for example.

- - - Updated - - -

Good loot council is the best system possible. Bad loot council is the worst system possible. Unalterable truth: it's about the people.

I've seen and heard of so many loot councils that worked great till a mount or legendary item drops. Or just a very rare good item.

[Vaerys]

Loot is plentiful enough now that DKP is not needed to satisfy the average player's need for ensuring fair distribution, ESPECIALLY with bonus rolls available to help tilt the odds. Random rolling, with a master looter, and bonus rolls for the bosses you really want something from, works really well.

[scmeck]

Loot council only works when every single member of the council is always fair, and since the history of WoW raiding there has not been a single guild where someone didn't abuse his power.

I've seen and heard of so many loot councils that worked great till a mount or legendary item drops. Or just a very rare good item.

This is the most cynical thing I've read in a long time. I've been in 3 guilds since TBC - all using loot council, and I've been part of 2 of them. No problems, no whining, because as long as you clearly state the rules (attendance > performance > etc) and you stick to them there's no whining. If a mount drops, just roll them out, there's no reason to LC over something that trivial, because that is just stupid and people WILL be disappointed. Legendary items, make it clear from the beginning who's getting what long before you even get it (by rolling, going by performance or w/e rule you use), then there's no disappointment. And if there is, tough luck, only one person can get it at a time.

[Lellybaby]

Our raid has started using EPGP again (We have been mainly 10man guild for MoP and have had an influx of returning guildies +15) now that we are back up to ~27ish raiders.

I know many people have a problem with it but its an effort vs gear reward.

In all honesty I still ask in healer chat over rings/neck/weapons to see if someone needs a bigger upgrade over me.

[Mormolyce]

Only system I've ever used was EPGP, and it worked just fine.

Honestly, some people create loot drama regardless, and those people are a burden to any raid group they are in. Loot system is largely irrelevant.