Grimoire of Sacrifice

[Dastreus]

I really want Grimoire of Sacrifice to stop sucking. Everytime I think "Oh my gear is better- maybe I can use it, now!" I try, and my dps drops 4-5k compared to grimoire of supremecy and demonic servitude's combo. Fuck, hunters get to be solo, now.

[Nutri]

Oh I can think of worse matters. Like having an Observer instead of the Felhunter when using Supremacy.
Why would you favor having Sac btw?

[Deleted]

Hunters get to be solo, but it's a dps loss over Focusing Shot. Be thankful GoSac and Charred remains is going to scale very, very well. By next tier it will be more than viable in most gear.

GoSac is viable for affli in pvp. It probably wont ever be viable in pve because it'd have to buff DoT damage by a large % and affli is now a channeling spec, not really a dot spec.

[Feuerbart]

Bad pet ai is one thing for not wanting a pet. And the next thing is why have the talent when it is desastrous to take it?

They had it in, we used it, then they said something like "warlock is no petless class" nerved it down and now they implement the same thing for hunters while ours stays shit. I can live with being a pet spec but a hunter is that even more in my eyes. Either they implement those talents in a even matter or they take them out.

[Deleted]

Bad pet ai is one thing for not wanting a pet. And the next thing is why have the talent when it is desastrous to take it?

They had it in, we used it, then they said something like "warlock is no petless class" nerved it down and now they implement the same thing for hunters while ours stays shit. I can live with being a pet spec but a hunter is that even more in my eyes. Either they implement those talents in a even matter or they take them out.

The talent is fine and the best choice for destro on many fights in BRF. What is the problem? That you can't use it permanently? Good hunters switch to Focusing Shot on low movement fights for a dps increase. A good warlock will take the best talents for the fight/spec they are using.

Edit: I don't think I ever sacrificed my pet in MoP, especially in SoO as you had to wait for the chaos bolt DoT to expire before landing another for the talent to be near Supremacy.

[Dastreus]

I've played lock on and off since vanilla, and always go affliction. The thought of being free from the Pet AI has been a long time thing for me.

That, and it's obnoxious when you have such a nice looking mog, then you're gigantic terrorguard stands overtop your character model on platforms. You move, and you still just see demon when it shifts to stand over you again. That's a minor nitpick, but still annoying.

[Karamatsu]

I guess my issue with the talent is that it's so terribly designed. Being a trap with demonic servitude is awful. The reason it kept getting nerfed patch after patch during MoP was because our pets (aside from demonology) do not scale from our mastery, while saccing your pet would. As we crept up in gear sac started looking better and better, until a new content patch hit, and they knocked another 10% off of it. I don't mind it being a SLIGHT dps loss in certain situations, but it shouldn't be so dramatic, and there should be times that we are able to get a dps gain from it (I suppose I am talking about affliction in particular now).

I think the specific problem is, is that it only affects certain spells when it should be a set damage increase instead. That way on a council type fight, it would not be a complete waste for affliction. It was mentioned earlier how hunters take focusing shot on low movement fights. For warlocks, the effect would be the opposite. A low movement fight would be more ideal for sac and terrible for a high movement fight. For affliction there is almost no scenario where this talent would be the way to go, with the exception of fights where the pet AI shits itself... Deathwing?

[Locknrollen]

how can you even consider this as a problem?
The way some people prioritise just blows my mind.

[Cempa]

For PvP this is an amazing choice GoSac adds so much! PvE I have no clue but you are a Warlock how can you not want demons????

[Deleted]

I honestly prefer my warlock without demons, but Sac just isn't viable in PvE even with the recent buff.

[Dastreus]

I think the specific problem is, is that it only affects certain spells when it should be a set damage increase instead. That way on a council type fight, it would not be a complete waste for affliction. It was mentioned earlier how hunters take focusing shot on low movement fights. For warlocks, the effect would be the opposite. A low movement fight would be more ideal for sac and terrible for a high movement fight. For affliction there is almost no scenario where this talent would be the way to go, with the exception of fights where the pet AI shits itself... Deathwing?

Exactly this. Maybe they should change mastery for affliction to a flat shadow damage buff so it affects pets, too, if they want GoSac to suck. Or if they want GoSac to be viable, make it boost dot damage too, for less drain life boost.

[PickleballAce]

Exactly this. Maybe they should change mastery for affliction to a flat shadow damage buff so it affects pets, too, if they want GoSac to suck. Or if they want GoSac to be viable, make it boost dot damage too, for less drain life boost.

Problem with GoSac boosting DoTs is that it then becomes mandatory for any dot cleave fights since you're replacing a single target damage source (the pet) with a damage source that can be spread across multiple targets (boosted DoTs).

[Karamatsu]

Problem with GoSac boosting DoTs is that it then becomes mandatory for any dot cleave fights since you're replacing a single target damage source (the pet) with a damage source that can be spread across multiple targets (boosted DoTs).

Would that be terrible? To have one specific circumstance where the talent is viable vs the current setup where it is always a loss? The way it is set up now with multidotting it hurts cause you spend less time channeling ds. On movement fights you lose dmg for the same reason. Is it awfully to ask for parity with lone wolf? A simple flat damage increase would be nice less than what the pet does but enough to be close and be gain in certain situations.

[PickleballAce]

Would that be terrible? To have one specific circumstance where the talent is viable vs the current setup where it is always a loss? The way it is set up now with multidotting it hurts cause you spend less time channeling ds. On movement fights you lose dmg for the same reason. Is it awfully to ask for parity with lone wolf? A simple flat damage increase would be nice less than what the pet does but enough to be close and be gain in certain situations.

Lone Wolf isn't a flat damage increase anymore, if that's what you mean. It does buff Chimaera for Marksman for a minor improvement to cleaving, but no Multishot or Serpent Sting.

AffSac is at least defensible on Single Target, but it would be clearly, clearly, clearly the better talent for anything beyond that. It's just a flaw in the way that Sacrifice interacts with Affliction gameplay. There's really no good answer for it. It happens now to some degree with Cata vs. Servitude for Demo filling different niches in the same talent tier, but that doesn't mean it should be encouraged.

I've probably been the biggest Sac fanboi on these forums. I'd love to be able to use it more.

[DenniZ]

Hunters get to be solo, but it's a dps loss over Focusing Shot. Be thankful GoSac and Charred remains is going to scale very, very well. By next tier it will be more than viable in most gear.

GoSac is viable for affli in pvp. It probably wont ever be viable in pve because it'd have to buff DoT damage by a large % and affli is now a channeling spec, not really a dot spec.

Afflic a channeling spec? That was the case in MoP but not anymore. SB:Haunt gives your dots more then enough punching power. The only reason I always channel for a while is to get Agony stacks up to 10 quicker.

[Deleted]

Afflic a channeling spec? That was the case in MoP but not anymore. SB:Haunt gives your dots more then enough punching power. The only reason I always channel for a while is to get Agony stacks up to 10 quicker.

Yep, and then you get shard starved unless you channel

Edit: I didn't play affli until 5.4 where it was made a dot spec. Spreading DoTs on adds in Norushen and protectors was insane dps. Iron Maidens should be a good fight for affli if it's a 'dot spec', and demo far outshines it. Maybe because they're stacked up most of the time, but affli should at least be a little better at multi-dot damage imo.

[Deleted]

For destro it feels useless

sounds cool to combo it with CR, but since it only buffs single target casts....it adds nothing to CR AoE.
maybe good for challenge mode

at least to me GoSac is as useful as MF

[Dastreus]

I thought about even using Cataclysm with SB: Seed of Corruption, in the hopes of having a quick option for multidotting... then noticed the 1 minute cooldown. Nope.

[Locknrollen]

If you go destro CR you pick sac in almost any case. There wont be a fight where you constantly aoe.

[scibane]

I would love sac cr to work all the time in every fight