Dutch jihadists should die before returning to Netherlands: Prime Minister Rutte

[Deleted]

Perfectly agree. They should all die there.
Only they won't. Some will be back and we need a plan B in action. Otherwise they'll spread.

Plan A dont let them become radicalised.
Plan B don't let them leave to train.
Plan C pray that they die somewhere else.
Plan D hope they are too stupid to pull it of.

[Deleted]

That's actually a very good plan.
Not very popular maybe but very effective.
It's an ideology problem, show them their ideology is wrong.

You can't put them in jail forever. They'll infect others with their extremism.

Not sure how you can actually claim that since no one knows if it works with ideology, especially after they leave.

This is not some petty or even serious offense against a person WITHIN society, i.e. in all other respects the very fabric of that person and all their connections is either a product of that society or operating well within centuries-old values, institutions, rules and support.

This is someone who despite likely growing up entirely within the West, over years if not a decade rejects every part of it to their core being except its tools of violence, committed all their current resources and those of others, then actually had the resolve to travel to fight and die on foreign land for these completely different core values.

In other words, it is not even that you are transporting some who thinks like the Middle Ages into the modern world, but trying to change someone back who has already proven to have rejected everything about you and your values that they knew of from birth. Someone who may have committed or seen committed horrendous crimes of both war and against civilians ...

Even if you think you are successful, what about their former connections or current associates who may have been inspired by them or their children? What kind of person would be left, and their confidence in broader society, who had made not one but two such drastic life-changing journeys? Where would the "reformed" individual get friendship and support from within broader society once people learn of their actions?

Are you and everyone in your society willing to take that risk? And for what? They already left the country.

[Deleted]

Not sure how you can actually claim that since no one knows if it works with ideology, especially after they leave.

This is not some petty or even serious offense against a person WITHIN society, i.e. in all other respects the very fabric of that person and all their connections is either a product of that society or operating well within centuries-old values, institutions, rules and support.

This is someone who despite likely growing up entirely within the West, over years if not a decade rejects every part of it to their core being except its tools of violence, committed all their current resources and those of others, then actually had the resolve to travel to fight and die on foreign land for these completely different core values.

In other words, it is not even that you are transporting some who thinks like the Middle Ages into the modern world, but trying to change someone back who has already proven to have rejected everything about you and your values that they knew of from birth. Someone who may have committed or seen committed horrendous crimes of both war and against civilians ...

Even if you think you are successful, what about their former connections or current associates who may have been inspired by them or their children? What kind of person would be left, and their confidence in broader society, who had made not one but two such drastic life-changing journeys? Where would the "reformed" individual get friendship and support from within broader society once people learn of their actions?

Are you and everyone in your society willing to take that risk? And for what? They already left the country.

I simply can't see a better option.
You can't kill them all. You can't leave them there.you can't lock them in jail.
how d you deal with them?

[Deleted]

It is because in some countries, e.g. Sweden apparently, they allow (former) fighters including those who are citizens to come back and even be fully re-integrated into society with specific benefits in some cases, like being paid to complete university degrees. There may be no consequences at all either before they leave, while they are away or after they return...

Countries/states are still trying to figure out how to deal with this major problem. Some are much slower to act or have not decided how to act.

Don't let them return, easy as that. No seriously you can't reintegrate them because in many cases they were never integrated to begin with. These people are dangerous. They went to participate in a holy war, they killed people, often relished in torture and outright genocide of small minorities in these countries and commited acts for which they would serve several life times in prison.

Countries like Sweden letting them right back in and even funding them doesn't really surprise me at all. They're going to have fun with that soon enough.

@Djalil, actually you could find reasons to lock them all up and you goddamn should. These people are extremely dangerous. You can't reintegrate them since most of the time they never were integrate OR WOULD WANT TO. What you're saying is that people should find ticking timebombs for absolutely no reason or benefit.

And leaving them there by denying them their right to return is also absolutely viable. Why shouldn't you be able to?

[Deleted]

Don't let them return, easy as that. No seriously you can't reintegrate them because in many cases they were never integrated to begin with. These people are dangerous. They went to participate in a holy war, they killed people, often relished in torture and outright genocide of small minorities in these countries and commited acts for which they would serve several life times in prison.

Countries like Sweden letting them right back in and even funding them doesn't really surprise me at all. They're going to have fun with that soon enough.

We all agree that they're scumbags.
But they -will- return.

[Rhine101]

I agree with him. I would prefer any Americans that join in over there just get slayed than bring that shit back here.

[Deleted]

We all agree that they're scumbags.
But they -will- return.

Only if we let them.

[Shadowmelded]

I know it's convenient to think of them all as animals but it's not the case. Some people are confused by a lot of the shit going on in the middle east, the reluctance of the west to help in some situations but not in others which lends credibility to the belief that the west doesn't care unless it can get something out of it. The fact that they're young and politically naive makes it easier for them to buy into the idea that the west is evil and selfish (which isn't exclusive to muslims, it's pretty prevalent among misanthropic angst filled white kids) and then something comes along that claims to be righteous, is helping people they feel camaraderie with (Syrians and possibly Palestinians although I haven't delved too deep into ISIS's stance on that, I doubt they're anti-Palestine or pro-Israel) and gives them something to do/believe in.

[Deleted]

Only if we let them.

How do you prevent them?

[Heladys]

He's right. Death to all jihadists. You take part in that stuff you sign your own death warrant.

[Hooked]

I don't understand how we cant see these convoys of isis trucks and destroy them, it makes no sense to me at all. They can see everything in real time so why aren't they taking them out?. It all smells fishy. Use the a-10 warthogs and puff the magic dragon and destroy every last isis.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I would go through the process of being a citizen of the Netherlands in order to vote for this guy. I might even stay!

[derpkitteh]

if it were up to me, anyone who even attempted to leave for this nonsense would be put down publicly in the air port they're trying to leave from.

i don't think words can really describe the hate these things(things, not people, not animals, they're nothing) inspire in me. i only wish i could do something about it.

[Kuntantee]

Where exactly is the problem?

Pragmatic but not very humanitarian statement, that's the problem. When coming from head of the state, sure does sound weird.

[Deleted]

How do you prevent them?

First of all? Labeling them as what they are. Terrorists, murderers, rapists. Secondly issuing arrest warrants in case they return, revoke their citizenship in so far as they actually have them and so on and on. We have a lot of ways to deal with these people and we absolutely should. Funding them an university attendance or paying them welfare sure as hell aren't some of them, these people are dangerous radicals, is it that hard to understand?

- - - Updated - - -

Pragmatic but not very humanitarian statement, that's the problem. When coming from head of the state, sure does sound weird.

Except, these people barely classify as humans and they don't see their victims as humans either. They're not people you can talk things through with and ultimatively their victims should be way higher valued than them. If they ended up dying and not returning they would do almost everyone, especially all those people they're going to victimize in the future a favour.

[Rhine101]

the reluctance of the west to help in some situations but not in others which lends credibility to the belief that the west doesn't care unless it can get something out of it.

As it should be. They need to learn how to police themselves. I mean, their civilizations have been around since before the West. They should be superior to us and here they are still living like they are animals.

This is gonna come off bad (worse than the previous) but I don't care who wins. ISIS, or whoever. I just want one power to kill the opposition and set up a civilization. Whether your people live in prosperity or you treat them as cattle I don't care. If the warring stops then it is progress in my book.

[derpkitteh]

Pragmatic but not very humanitarian statement, that's the problem. When coming from head of the state, sure does sound weird.

these creatures aren't human any longer. they're abominations that need to be eradicated from the face of the planet. even a stain left behind after they're dead is too much to continue existing.

[Shadowmelded]

As it should be. They need to learn how to police themselves. I mean, their civilizations have been around since before the West. They should be superior to us and here they are still living like they are animals.

This is gonna come off bad (worse than the previous) but I don't care who wins. ISIS, or whoever. I just want one power to kill the opposition and set up a civilization. Whether your people live in prosperity or you treat them as cattle I don't care. If the warring stops then it is progress in my book.

Kinda hard when we're playing kingmakers in the region for our own benefit. Continuous warring will kind of to that to civilisations though.

these creatures aren't human any longer. they're abominations that need to be eradicated from the face of the planet. even a stain left behind after they're dead is too much to continue existing.

Sounds like the west needs it's own ISIS, a few people in this thread would feel right at home.

[AeneasBK]

Except, these people barely classify as humans

these creatures aren't human any longer.

Such a shame for us all that they are very much humans.

[Sting]

Fuck em. If they want to go fight for a foreign barbaric miltia, fuck em. I don't want them back, I don't care if that means they die or are refused back into the country.