Disc 4p not worth it?

[Deleted]

Hi All, a fellow healer told me yesterday that 4p is not worth it for disc priests because of the loss of stats. Is this right in your opinion?

Is it correct to generally gear up with Mastery and Crit in mind?

Any advice would be much appreciated !

thx!
Nuk

[Overdispersion]

It's worth about 400 spirit if you use it on cd with EAA. I would say I'd prefer that + having a dps trinket with 300 in secondary stats, rather than the difference in the stats you get between tier and off-pieces. In a 10 minute fight I'd obviously like to that extra spirit even with 2 regen trinks.

[Deleted]

it is nice to have, but 2 pieces will do if he can't get the other 2. Chest/Legs are the best pieces to get.
Stat wise, yes. Always hard to get right gear but aim to at least have mastery or crit on the gear. aka don't pick vers/haste over crit/xxx or mastery/xxx in my opinion.

[Deleted]

From what I played so far, the disc 4p bonus is a letdown. While it's a decent mana gain in the long run for a fight, in practice, it's often the case that you'd want to trigger AA without using the EAA immediately, so the mana reduction goes down the drain.

I think the 4p would be better if the mana reduction would apply to the first PoH you cast in X seconds (where X is the same duration as the EAA buff).

[Deleted]

From what I played so far, the disc 4p bonus is a letdown. While it's a decent mana gain in the long run for a fight, in practice, it's often the case that you'd want to trigger AA without using the EAA immediately, so the mana reduction goes down the drain.

I think the 4p would be better if the mana reduction would apply to the first PoH you cast in X seconds (where X is the same duration as the EAA buff).

exactly, this! Too many situations where you just waste the bonus and cast the PoH later during EAA active. Delaying AA to gain full benefit from 4p bonus is even worse. "Reduces the mana Cost of your Prayer of Healing while EAA is active by X>=50%." would be so much better and not even a buff in sense of efficency or HPS.
I'm still not sure, wearing 4p at the moment and try to evaluate it's real use via observing my logs. So far it feels like: not worth it in most situations

[Djriff]

IMO The 4pc will pair very well with Spirit Shell on a fight we ever have to use it. Unfortunately our ST shields are more powerful than Spirit Shell will ever be. I don't know the exact math but over a 6 minute fight don't you actually get more mana by spaming PW:S than PoH at 50% reduced for ~2 casts due to the way mana regen works?

[Tygerlily177]

I'm going to pick up 4-piece for all of our upcoming Mythic fights (Maidens, Blast Furnace and Blackhand). They're all 8min+ and/or very mana intensive, and I would prefer not to have to use a pure spirit trinket. I'm currently using Candle and Ironspike Chew Toy, but I am at my limit. I end fights too close to oom for comfort. It's never recommended to drop intellect for spirit, so I would prefer to drop a bit of mastery. At 5.7k mana saved per cast of PoH, I would gain more mana from 4-piece than from my Candle. 4-piece would allow me to keep my Candle on long fights or to use a DPS trinket on short fights. I could still swap in off-pieces if mana is not needed.

As an example, look at this log from a priest in Nihilum. He cast 16 PoH during AA, which 4-piece would have saved him 91.2K mana. In comparison, his Candle only gave him 52.2K mana. This is quite a difference.

This whole 4-piece debate kind of goes back to the spirit debate last tier. Should I have 900 spirit or 1500 spirit?!? I think Midwinter answered it nicely last night.

Int > Spirit
End the fight nearly oom
4-piece will allow me to achieve this goal. The difference for me is that I won't be swapping in spirit-based trinkets, I will be swapping in 4-piece.

[Djriff]

How often do you use PoH to make that much of a difference?

[Tygerlily177]

How often do you use PoH to make that much of a difference?

I use AA on cooldown on almost every fight. It's so easy to stack with 2-piece. Sometimes I'll hold on when an AoE phase is coming, but it's rare. So I'd say 8-15 PoHs per fight (45k-85k mana saved with 4-piece). Out of the 10 Disc Priests who killed Blast Furnace on warcraft logs, the average was 16 PoHs.

Looks like I might have been wrong about Maidens though because the majority are spamming CoW on tanks (even with a paladin) and use little to no PoHs. The tank damage must be insane. My guild only does 9h of Mythic raiding, so we're not there yet. However, based on what I have seen so far, I could definitely see 4-piece being worthwhile on some of the longer or more aoe-heavy fights. It could also allow us to use DPS trinkets on the shorter fights.

[Deleted]

I use AA on cooldown on almost every fight. It's so easy to stack with 2-piece. Sometimes I'll hold on when an AoE phase is coming, but it's rare. So I'd say 8-15 PoHs per fight (45k-85k mana saved with 4-piece). Out of the 10 Disc Priests who killed Blast Furnace on warcraft logs, the average was 16 PoHs.

Looks like I might have been wrong about Maidens though because the majority are spamming CoW on tanks (even with a paladin) and use little to no PoHs. The tank damage must be insane. My guild only does 9h of Mythic raiding, so we're not there yet. However, based on what I have seen so far, I could definitely see 4-piece being worthwhile on some of the longer or more aoe-heavy fights. It could also allow us to use DPS trinkets on the shorter fights.

It has nothing to do with tank damage being insane, and everything to do with CoW letting you cheese Sanguine Strikes. The raid-wide AoE never triggers if she doesn't actually make a dent in your health pool, so having a Disc spam CoW on the tank actively tanking Marak effectively eliminates the mechanic completely from play.

Bonus points if you have a Monk tanking Marak just for extra cheese.

[Spotnick]

I use AA on cooldown on almost every fight.

5 stacks or less?

[Deleted]

5 stacks or less?

Any convenient way to not have 5 stacks of evangelism after 30 seconds? (with 2p)

[Tygerlily177]

5 stacks or less?

Never. It's too easy to stack with penance, holy fire, penance. If I need to spread shields, I don't let my penance channel.

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It has nothing to do with tank damage being insane, and everything to do with CoW letting you cheese Sanguine Strikes. The raid-wide AoE never triggers if she doesn't actually make a dent in your health pool, so having a Disc spam CoW on the tank actively tanking Marak effectively eliminates the mechanic completely from play.

Bonus points if you have a Monk tanking Marak just for extra cheese.

Ahhhhhhhh thanks for the info! Can you explain how the Bloodsoaked Heartseeker targets are able to stand in the same corner in most videos?

[Deleted]

Never. It's too easy to stack with penance, holy fire, penance. If I need to spread shields, I don't let my penance channel.

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Ahhhhhhhh thanks for the info! Can you explain how the Bloodsoaked Heartseeker targets are able to stand in the same corner in most videos?

Heartseeker seems to calculate the damage based solely on the primary target's distance from Marak, which means the targets don't take additional damage from packing close to place the Heartseekers as far out of the way as possible.

Likewise, simply pre-shielding and dispelling Convulsive Shadows before it ticks will ensure that you never get any pools of crap, and Blade Dash and Blood Ritual will both prefer an eligible target with their respective debuffs over any other, which means that so long as you force the first Blade Dash etc on the right person, the rest of the raid can do more or less whatever the fuck they want. Additionally, every single player-targeted mechanic bar (I think) Heartseeker can be Spectral Guise'd, Feign Death'd, etc.

[Tygerlily177]

Heartseeker seems to calculate the damage based solely on the primary target's distance from Marak, which means the targets don't take additional damage from packing close to place the Heartseekers as far out of the way as possible.

Likewise, simply pre-shielding and dispelling Convulsive Shadows before it ticks will ensure that you never get any pools of crap, and Blade Dash and Blood Ritual will both prefer an eligible target with their respective debuffs over any other, which means that so long as you force the first Blade Dash etc on the right person, the rest of the raid can do more or less whatever the fuck they want. Additionally, every single player-targeted mechanic bar (I think) Heartseeker can be Spectral Guise'd, Feign Death'd, etc.

Thank you very much!