Curt Schilling: Best Dad Ever

[StayTuned]

Hollywood:


stating as facts is defamation.

Then sue him?

The father used absolutely no legal ways to handle the defamation. He went on a personal vendetta to expose true names, and even made them public "just to show them for the future".

I'm not a lawyer, but I have the feeling that in Europe, I could sue you for that in exchange and win. He basically tried to combat trolling by trolling them back. It's again feeding the troll.

[Independent voter]

First there was the Wild West where you could do pretty much anything you wanted, up until someone decided they wanted to shoot you.

Then there was civilization and Sheriffs, Wild Bill Hickok who shot and killed his opponent at 100 yards away.

Then we have what we have today.

I think the Internet is still in the Wild West phase. Other phases are pending. Enjoy the Wild West while you can.

[Gheld]

I'm sorry but I'm with StayTuned on this one.

The internet used to be pretty awesome, but naturally commerce demanded it become more accessible, and now that it is "fully accessible" it is just some anemic happymeal version of what it used to be.

And I bet I can go through any one of the post histories of the "DON'T TROLL THE INTERNETS OR ELSE!!!" people and find a day where they had a bad day, and said things that were really douchey, or snide that would have gotten them punched in the face if they talked like that to somebody in person.

It doesn't need saving from the trolls. In fact I'd say the rise of internet trolling is a symptom of the greater issue;

When I first started using the internet, it was just me, and a bunch of other social misfits, we were there because we were misfits, not because we agreed with each other about anything. Disagreement was to be expected. That free discourse of ideas, constantly having your perceptions of the world challenged by differing view points, that made it great.

Now that everybody is on the internet, people just actively seek to create this intellectual/emotional circle jerk where nobody can ever challenge their ideas because arguing is scary. People troll because not quietly shuffling into a bunch of niches where nobody should ever have to feel bad about anything has become this unspeakable taboo.

People are trolling on the internet because there is no more competition of ideas. People are given no basis upon which to feel good about their own intellectual property, the internet is just this place where you go, pop in your credit card number, and then out comes somebody else's intellectual property, and by somebody else's I mean nobody else's. It's just a bunch of cookie cutter garbage.

The internet was once like public access TV (don't know if anybody remembers that), which was about small people finding their voice in a big world. But like everything else it's just become this soulless capitalistic happy-meal version of what it used to be and that's where trolls seem to come in. Because there weren't trolls on the internet in the 1990s.

I'm not defending trolling. I'm just proposing something radical here: Perhaps this whole culture of "oh no, nobody should ever be offended by anything" is responsible for their existence in the first place.

[Wildtree]

This is entirely bullshit.

The internet was created for exactly this reason. The unadulterated exchange of information. Flow of thought. If you say something on the internet, it is out there for everyone to see that this opinion exists. I might want to say things on the internet which express my inner, genuine feelings. But social pressure and norms make it impossible to voice these thoughts in public.

No just no.......
This is a misconception the younger people are falling for.
Truth of the matter however is, that the Internet is NOT a law free space. And never was.
Those that are around since day one know this very well.
And the internet was not created for that purpose either.
It was created, and serves as such, as a tool of exchange of information. Not more, not less.
It has been hijacked by immature kids that weren't even born yet when the Internet came to be.

You are German, aren't you? You should therefore know the laws that apply to you and your actions..
http://www.it-rechtsinfo.de/themen/i...-internet.html
"Wer eigene Informationen im Internet bereitstellt, haftet ohne Haftungsprivilegierung in voller Höhe."

Whoever provides their own information is liable without any liability protection in full.

Further down in the link is the handling for forums and the like.
While the link mainly deals with providers, this automatically also includes the users. If a service provider is held responsible, that applies even more so for the person breaking the law (Stoerer - Disturber).

Anyhow.... I wanted to touch on the OP link.
This part from the article:

The three of them sat and talked. Gabby is 17 years old, and like so many kids who’ve grown up in the digital age, she wanted to just ignore it until it went away — “shake it off,” as it were.

Her father felt differently — that there should be pushback, that these people, whoever they were, should be held accountable.

“I said, ‘Gabby, listen — I apologize if you’re embarrassed, but there are certain things that aren’t allowable.’”

That man is right, 100% agreeing with him.

That ignore shit away stance is destructive and does not accomplish a damned thing on positive outcome.
For all it achieves is, what I just quoted above... People either forgetting, or never learning how there are always consequence attached to ones doing.
Be it legal consequences, or be it direct consequences.
IRL these things are not out of control, because of especially the latter alternative.
Someone insulting someone else' daughter that disrespectful might just land the person in a hospital, because they've gotten the beat up of their life, and they deserved every single punch for that matter.

More people need to stand up. We need to return to how things went down always and forever.
These assbags need to learn to live with consequences for their/ones own actions.

[Deleted]

Its all about doxxing cunts.

I hate the use of the word troll tho they are just toxic little cunts. I remember when trolling was an attempt at humour. Like going on Noel Gallaghers twitter and saying 'songbird is your best song'. Thats solid trolling. Or asking Danny Dyer to stop making movies because they are filling up the DVD bargain bucket. Good trolling.

Making rape threats and death threats is asking to be doxxed.

[Apexis]

As much as I get what he is doing in taking a stand against the Internet troll that are simply giving his daughter a hard time. He has really kicked the door open for even more to come her way as a result of him taking a stand. This crap has long since gotten out of control to the point where people can no longer be civil when it come to trying to have meaningful conversation anywhere these days, especially the web.

This notion that some can sit behind a computer screen and say whatever get their rocks off to another and thinking that some simply can't track you down, is absurd in this day and age. It will take more than Mr. Schilling for people to actually get on the wagon themselves to help stop all the nonsense that been going on for years now. I guess its simply going to take having some of the worst of the worst offenders to get tracked down and simply get blown away for simply pressing the wrong button to someone on the another end of the screen to get people to really wake up.

[Wildtree]

Its all about doxxing cunts.

I hate the use of the word troll tho they are just toxic little cunts. I remember when trolling was an attempt at humour. Like going on Noel Gallaghers twitter and saying 'songbird is your best song'. Thats solid trolling. Or asking Danny Dyer to stop making movies because they are filling up the DVD bargain bucket. Good trolling.

Making rape threats and death threats is asking to be doxxed.

Agreed... Trolling was intended to be funny in the beginning.
Trapping people into something, until you came out and said neener neener neener.... kinda that way.
The beauty of written word is, that you can easily conceal satiric sarcasm. Much better than with spoken word.
So trolling works a lot easier... But it's been misused now for all the wrong reasons.

[Mad_Murdock]

I'm sorry but I'm with StayTuned on this one.

The internet used to be pretty awesome, but naturally commerce demanded it become more accessible, and now that it is "fully accessible" it is just some anemic happymeal version of what it used to be.
.

I'm not with you guys. This mindset that the internet is just a wide open free for all and you can do whatever makes you happy is garbage. At the end of the day, either "the people" will tolerate it or they will not. We're getting to a place were "the people" aren't willing to tolerate it as much.

The glory days of being all the asshat you want without fear is coming to an end.

[StayTuned]

More people need to stand up. We need to return to how things went down always and forever.
These assbags need to learn to live with consequences for their/ones own actions.

I am missing the connection between what you wrote, and what I am referring to.

If someone is braking the law in such a way that you see demand for action, you can contact your local police station, file a report, and get things rolling. We already have systems in place to protect what needs to be protected in a democratic state. If you voice a clear death threat, this can be handled by the authorities.

Doxxing them, making their names public is not the right way. it is indeed not even an inch better than the trolls themselves. It's vengeance, nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed... Trolling was intended to be funny in the beginning.
Trapping people into something, until you came out and said neener neener neener.... kinda that way.
The beauty of written word is, that you can easily conceal satiric sarcasm. Much better than with spoken word.
So trolling works a lot easier... But it's been misused now for all the wrong reasons.

A troll is just someone who wants to provoke a reaction. You have mild trolls, and you have extreme trolls. For the extreme guys, i.e. death threats, we have official channels which can be used.

So many people here seem to be fucking okay with doxxing, yet I think I can remember a thread not so long ago where people were all like "fucking doxxers, ruining people's lives".

[Forgettable]

Devils Advocate here


The internet is a free thought zone. I vomit at the thought that someone tracked me down due to me voicing my opinion, no matter how vulgar or troll-like it is in your eyes.

Even if I said I wanted to bang your daughter with a baseball bat.

You would be free to say what you want online no matter how vulgar and disgusting. And everyone else would be free to label you a vile human being and destroy your reputation because of your actions. Fair?

[StayTuned]

I'm not with you guys. This mindset that the internet is just a wide open free for all and you can do whatever makes you happy is garbage. At the end of the day, either "the people" will tolerate it or they will not. We're getting to a place were "the people" aren't willing to tolerate it as much.

The glory days of being all the asshat you want without fear is coming to an end.

Great, now we can all go back to being best friends foreva. Liek dis if u kry evryime.

Fucking hell, why does the anonymity of the internet has to suffer because you are incapable of performing simple tasks, such as ignoring accounts and deleting shit without really reading/caring about the toxic content?

[Deleted]

So many people here seem to be fucking okay with doxxing, yet I think I can remember a thread not so long ago where people were all like "fucking doxxers, ruining people's lives".

Think thats because it was just gamergate cunts doxxing women they were being abusive too.

When its the troll getting doxxed and having thier life fucked I'm pretty good with that.

[StayTuned]

You would be free to say what you want online no matter how vulgar and disgusting. And everyone else would be free to label you a vile human being and destroy your reputation because of your actions. Fair?

Are people really this incapable of understanding me? I something wrong with the words I have been using today? Who is going to label me what as long as I am anonymous?

Without a name written in front of me, I am free to express my genuine feelings. No matter how barbaric, stupid, disgusting or vile you think they are.

I do not agree with their voices, I do not share their values and opinions, but I sure as hell do want them to have the right to remain as anonymous as possible on the internet, without the fear of being doxxed.

Screw this overly correct society. We need to let some bad apples roam out there, simply because we cannot afford to take the anonymity away from those who truly need it.

[Reeve]

Okay, look. Let me try to put into really simple words for my own sake, lol.


Today's society has become overly public. Social media in form of Twitter and Facebook were going rampant within our youth over the last years, but as of lately it has become a domain of pretty much everyone. Your mom, grandfather, dad.... Even people who had no interest in the internet before, have now started using social media. I am mostly talking about later generations in this case.

I wonder if, as a 31 year old, I'm one of the "older generations" you're referring to. I certainly didn't grow up with social media.

Now that social media is such a publicly accepted thing, and virtually everyone is participating, we are forced to encounter a whole bunch of strange people. Most dominantly:

1) Trolls
2) People who do not know how to deal with trolls

Trolls have been around the internet since the start of it. Social Media has given them the power to troll people directly "in front of their own house" so to speak, increasing both in numbers and public impact.

Now, as I said, trolls have been around pretty much since ever - and the most efficient way to deal with them was to seriously just not feed them. Trolls carve attention, they get their biggest kick out of knowing that someone actually took the time to read their junk and possibly even reacted emotionally to it.

Trolls crave anonymous attention. They don't crave attention for what they've said in real life. Trolling is by nature a cowardly action. Trolls by and large do NOT want to be doxed. It's one of the only things you can do to a troll that they don't want to have happen.

What I mean when I said "perverted craze about social media", was the notion that so many people want to become public figures themselves though Twitter. A phenomenon I have predominantly noticed in the US. You applied for some uni? Tweet it. You are pitching for a team? Tweet it.

I mostly disengage from social media, so accusing me of a perverted craze about social media is a bit odd. I pretty much never use Twitter or Instagram, have never used Snapchat, and pretty much only use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends or to post pictures when I'm overseas so that my friends and family back home know what I'm getting up to.

Naturally, your wish to make yourself public attracts people from the public. How many shit tweets do real celebrities get per day? A lot. Do they bother doxxing them all? I doubt it.

They probably don't. Nor do they really need to. Just doxing some proportion of them, if enough people begin to do it, may make people think twice before being a shitlord. Besides, celebrities know they're making themselves a target. Going after someone's 17 year old daughter who was mentioned in a post just because she's going to college shouldn't make her a target.

Now we are faced with two options. Either, you teach children and parents alike on how to successfully ignore those trolls, report them on Twitter, get their accounts banned, do all the things the internet offers you to get rid of their messages. In my opinion, like this we can ensure that people feel safe in voicing their opinion, because sometimes it is genuinely not good for your health if people IRL know about your opinion. I'm talking oppressed states, conspiracies, etc.

The strategies you mention here aren't working. Trolling is not being reduced by them. Ignoring the trolls isn't changing anything.

Or, we develop a mindset that Blizzard almost wanted to push through on their website: nobody should actually be anonymous anymore on the internet. Yay, what a happy, troll-free life. But fuck the actual exchange of ideas. Everyone now just conforms to social standards and peer pressure because his name is out there for the public record.

This isn't a binary issue. It isn't "everyone should be completely unassailably anonymous or they should always have their complete RL information right next to everything they say on the internet." There's a reasonable middle ground. Like my IRL name is not on these forums, though my identity would not be hard to guess by my post history here. You can have a general anonymity, tempered by the ability of people to find you and rat you out if you're behaving like a shitlord.

You see, it is not so much that I like trolls or that I even condone their behavior. I just see them for what they are, an ugly byproduct of a truly free environment. Ugly, yet important in its own way.

Not a free environment. A consequence-free environment.

And the internet will die, if we keep on nurturing this "no fully anonymous internet anymore" sentiment, only to protect some teenage girls.

That's completely nonsense. That's like saying people won't talk to each other IRL in public anymore because they can't be assholes without consequences.

[dextersmith]

Then sue him?

The father used absolutely no legal ways to handle the defamation. He went on a personal vendetta to expose true names, and even made them public "just to show them for the future".

I'm not a lawyer, but I have the feeling that in Europe, I could sue you for that in exchange and win. He basically tried to combat trolling by trolling them back. It's again feeding the troll.

I'm saying the net does not provide a free for all free thought zone with no consequences. He could sue, he chose to express free thought in your free thought zone. What's wrong with exposing true names with their actions? He was free to think that solution was most fitting. He could still sue.

You have double standards.

[Reeve]

Then sue him?

The father used absolutely no legal ways to handle the defamation. He went on a personal vendetta to expose true names, and even made them public "just to show them for the future".

I'm not a lawyer, but I have the feeling that in Europe, I could sue you for that in exchange and win. He basically tried to combat trolling by trolling them back. It's again feeding the troll.

"This person said this," when true, is not trolling, nor is it legally actionable. It's just quoting a person and attributing the quote.

[Mad_Murdock]

Fucking hell, why does the anonymity of the internet has to suffer because you are incapable of performing simple tasks, such as ignoring accounts and deleting shit without really reading/caring about the toxic content?

Maybe more folks are like me and we don't fully support the notion of total anonymity without any consequence. Sure it sounds great on paper and it sounds great when some news reporter in China wants to break out secrets about their bad Govt behavior. But when folks get to the point they want to abuse the system, the attitude and laws change.

[Wildtree]

Doxxing them, making their names public is not the right way. it is indeed not even an inch better than the trolls themselves. It's vengeance, nothing else.

Regarding doxxing I am on your side, and I (you probably too) know why....
Us Germans grew up in a different society, one where the privacy of a person is highly protected.
Doxxing is, point and fact illegal in Germany.
Contrary to us, it is not that in the US.
There are no laws that prevent someone from posting other people's information.
There are laws tho that make it illegal (just like in Germany too) to call for someone to get physically harmed, in the US.

Laws are tricky and at the end of the day we're all heavily influenced under which system we've grown up.
But the problem we have is, that people don't use the internet with the proper mindset.
There's that touch of Anarchy and Pirate feel, that makes many believe they're untouchable. But they are not.
We all are subject to the laws applicable from two aspects:
1. the laws where we access the internet.
2. the laws where our targets reside.

In a sense.....
If I sit in the US and commit a crime as per the laws of France against a French person, I can be trialed and sentenced in my absence in France by a french court.
Will I be extradited? For a minor crime most definitely not. But, I better never set foot on French ground anytime soon, else I might get arrested.

[StayTuned]

I wonder if, as a 31 year old, I'm one of the "older generations" you're referring to. I certainly didn't grow up with social media.

No, I am not that much younger myself. Older generation refers to my parents, so basically everyone 50+. The youth however is in fact growing up with it.

Trolls crave anonymous attention. They don't crave attention for what they've said in real life. Trolling is by nature a cowardly action. Trolls by and large do NOT want to be doxed. It's one of the only things you can do to a troll that they don't want to have happen.

Doxxing is a way of dealing with certain individuals. I have to question the effectiveness of removing two bad apples from a tree in an attempt to save an otherwise perfectly healthy tree.

I mostly disengage from social media, so accusing me of a perverted craze about social media is a bit odd. I pretty much never use Twitter or Instagram, have never used Snapchat, and pretty much only use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends or to post pictures when I'm overseas so that my friends and family back home know what I'm getting up to.

I beg your pardon? I never referred to you directly. I am mostly talking about the millions of other uses Instagram and Twitter have.

They probably don't. Nor do they really need to. Just doxing some proportion of them, if enough people begin to do it, may make people think twice before being a shitlord. Besides, celebrities know they're making themselves a target. Going after someone's 17 year old daughter who was mentioned in a post just because she's going to college shouldn't make her a target.

The daughter already knew what had to be done. She was prepared to ignore that shit. Now everyone knows how her full name, how she looks, where she's going to school and what has been said about her. Her father made her more of a public target than anyone else.
His own idiotic actions (First to even fucking tweet about her, just to go "I know speical forces hurr durr" afterwards) in fact started all of this. Some people have been all like "Yea, I'd bang her / I'd take good care of her" at first. I think that's still within limits - people just write too much shit. The real deal started after he tried to combat the trolls. It escalated into him doxxing them.

The strategies you mention here aren't working. Trolling is not being reduced by them. Ignoring the trolls isn't changing anything.

I am not trying to reduce the amount of trolls. I am trying to reduce the impact they have on people. Or is the first instinct you have after someone insults you to beat him senseless? Makes you 100x worse than the troll.

This isn't a binary issue. It isn't "everyone should be completely unassailably anonymous or they should always have their complete RL information right next to everything they say on the internet." There's a reasonable middle ground. Like my IRL name is not on these forums, though my identity would not be hard to guess by my post history here. You can have a general anonymity, tempered by the ability of people to find you and rat you out if you're behaving like a shitlord.

Being a shitlord is not against the law, nor should it ever be. If you harass me on this board, I will report you which will get you banned. This is as much as I can do, and also as much as I should be able/allowed to do.

If you threaten my life directly, I can report you to the police.

Not a free environment. A consequence-free environment.

It is gradually becoming neither.

That's completely nonsense. That's like saying people won't talk to each other IRL in public anymore because they can't be assholes without consequences.

The analogy fails. People will still talk to each other. Just not honestly anymore.

[dextersmith]

Are people really this incapable of understanding me? I something wrong with the words I have been using today? Who is going to label me what as long as I am anonymous?

Without a name written in front of me, I am free to express my genuine feelings. No matter how barbaric, stupid, disgusting or vile you think they are.

I do not agree with their voices, I do not share their values and opinions, but I sure as hell do want them to have the right to remain as anonymous as possible on the internet, without the fear of being doxxed.

Screw this overly correct society. We need to let some bad apples roam out there, simply because we cannot afford to take the anonymity away from those who truly need it.

So you fight for means to commit consequence-free wrong-doings? Bullying is great if done under anonymity? How about cyber attacks, theft, or hacks?