1. #1

    Question Help with Heroic Blackrock difficulties for our Raid(flamebender)

    Hello Everyone,

    I am looking for help ensuring that I am correctly identifying a lot of issues we are having. I want to make sure that I am hitting the major points of difficulties we are having, specifically on the flamebender portion of the logs.

    On AskMrRobot searching Angelrune on Whisperwind should take you to some logs. The guild is Back Off Heroes.(I apologize, I cannot post links yet)

    Am I correct when I say that I think the problems we have are mostly coming from the following two areas. The tanks are not always getting the charing breath mitigated properly. This is causing them to get one shot. Additionally our healing is a lot lower than it should be with certain players performing well below what their ilvl should allow them to do?

    Additionally if anyone has advice on how a specific player should improve, I am hoping to point them to this thread for advice. Pretty much any areas where you think we could improve would be very appreciated.

    For background on the guild, the majority of us have raided together for a long time. We to tend to lean more towards casual but we are starting to get a little frustrated with the rate of progression we are currently experiencing. We raid 2 nights a week and I do believe any advice I can give players they would be happy to take. Let me know if there is any further information you would like me to provide. Thank you for your help.

    Here are the most recent logs:

    www*warcraftlogs*com/reports/K3NpL8Mq6wG1fDHt
    Last edited by captinsnow; 2015-03-12 at 02:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Hey Angel - it would be a lot easier to help you analyze if you upload to WarcraftLogs. AskMrRobot is great for initial level analysis but if you want to really unlock the real deal of how a player is doing things, you can't beat WcL. Next time you do Flamebender before uploading to AMR (which auto-wipes your log data when done) - upload to WcL and we can really do a deeper dive.

    Basic Points of Failure
    • Death via Cinderwolf - as my groups MT I can tell you the fight will fall apart if Tanks aren't mitigating, planning ahead goes a long way
    • Death via Torrent - depending on your comp you may have a number of people who can cheese this, the others should run into melee quick
    • Death via Firestorm - again planning goes a long way here, you'll see an average of 3 (maybe 4) - do you have enough CDs each time?

    Just some basic thoughts, but hope they help. Again, happy to break things down more if we can get some data in WarcraftLogs.

    Cheers!
    Xirek

  3. #3
    Hey I'm from Ask MR. Robot. Our logs are laid out a bit differently than traditional sites. So I have a few tips that might help analyze the logs

    * We actually don't wipe logs, they are archived in a zip file in a sub folder
    * We have in-depth data and graphs, here's a short video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ8zR62Ktoc
    * Cinderwolves on the infographics
    * Damage done (for the last attempt at 62% wipe), by charring breath.
    * Death overview and an example of specific deaths and the death event view.
    * Graphs: click the green circle graph button to get them. Here's the damage taken by the monk, with healing also put on the graph. At the bottom I turned on a few buffs too, to show that functionality.

    Hope those help so you can give more direction to captinsnow.
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2015-03-11 at 10:47 PM.
    Ask Mr. Robot Human Minion

  4. #4
    I believe I have successfully uploaded a log, is this what you were looking for?

    www*warcraftlogs*com/reports/bPMGFXdfwRH2CW6t/
    Last edited by captinsnow; 2015-03-11 at 11:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    My guild killed Flamebender for the first time today, so I'm certainly no expert here, but comparing our logs, I might have a few tips:
    - Aknor and the wolves are alive for quite a while. Aknor shouldn't be a big problem, but the wolves need to die asap. Everyone should focus down Aknor at the start, you shouldn't need Time Warp here. Use Time Warp when the first pack of wolves spawn to burn them down. For the second pack, everyone's 3m cooldowns should be back up. If you get in trouble for the 3rd pack, you can save your dps cooldowns at the pull and go 1st: CDs, 2nd: TW, 3rd: CDs
    - Your healers have ~50% overheal each. It might be better to go with 3 healers. Dogs die faster -> lot less healing needed
    - Make sure your healers have a cooldown rotation for Firestorm (every 2 min). Looking at your last pull, people dropped very low and it seems to be that only a tranquility was used. You could've used at least 1 more cd to get ppl back up (hymn, totem, aura). I might be wrong here, not a ms healer
    - Make sure your tanks swap Flamebender after every Firestorm for Rising Flames. Seems like the monk tank got way more stacks of this (but that might just be because the other tank was dead). Also, swap the overheated wolf after 1-2 breaths
    - Some of your members took way too much damage from lava slash. If that wasn't intentional in order to wipe, make sure everyone moves out of the fire lines asap. The addon "GTFO" helps alot.
    - Ebonizer and Lunamina took quite some damage from the wolves' lava breaths, in a time where the healers have to concentrate on the tanks. Make sure the wolf is tanked away from the group and all the melees are behind him. Also, while the wolves are out the tank damage will be very high. Make sure tanks are saving their cooldowns + externals (Ironbark, Guardian Angel,..) for this, healers should use a few smaller healing cds
    - This doesn't seem to be a big problem for your group, but you might want to split ranges in 2 (loosely spread) groups on the left and the right, with nobody standing in the middle - gives melees a nice spot to stand in where no lava slashes will be. Also makes kiting the wolf a bit easier.

  6. #6
    Thank you for the feedback. We did more attempts and ended up lower the number of healers to three. It seems like that did help tremendously. We were getting much closer with our best attempt at 22%. We still have some cleanup to do it looks like, I know on our closest attempt I really dropped the ball and lost focus dying in horrendous fashion to a meteor. Here are some updated logs on our most recent attempts.

    www*warcraftlogs*com/reports/K3NpL8Mq6wG1fDHt

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Verundi View Post
    My guild killed Flamebender for the first time today, so I'm certainly no expert here, but comparing our logs, I might have a few tips:
    - Aknor and the wolves are alive for quite a while. Aknor shouldn't be a big problem, but the wolves need to die asap. Everyone should focus down Aknor at the start, you shouldn't need Time Warp here. Use Time Warp when the first pack of wolves spawn to burn them down. For the second pack, everyone's 3m cooldowns should be back up. If you get in trouble for the 3rd pack, you can save your dps cooldowns at the pull and go 1st: CDs, 2nd: TW, 3rd: CDs
    - Your healers have ~50% overheal each. It might be better to go with 3 healers. Dogs die faster -> lot less healing needed
    - Make sure your healers have a cooldown rotation for Firestorm (every 2 min). Looking at your last pull, people dropped very low and it seems to be that only a tranquility was used. You could've used at least 1 more cd to get ppl back up (hymn, totem, aura). I might be wrong here, not a ms healer
    - Make sure your tanks swap Flamebender after every Firestorm for Rising Flames. Seems like the monk tank got way more stacks of this (but that might just be because the other tank was dead). Also, swap the overheated wolf after 1-2 breaths
    - Some of your members took way too much damage from lava slash. If that wasn't intentional in order to wipe, make sure everyone moves out of the fire lines asap. The addon "GTFO" helps alot.
    - Ebonizer and Lunamina took quite some damage from the wolves' lava breaths, in a time where the healers have to concentrate on the tanks. Make sure the wolf is tanked away from the group and all the melees are behind him. Also, while the wolves are out the tank damage will be very high. Make sure tanks are saving their cooldowns + externals (Ironbark, Guardian Angel,..) for this, healers should use a few smaller healing cds
    - This doesn't seem to be a big problem for your group, but you might want to split ranges in 2 (loosely spread) groups on the left and the right, with nobody standing in the middle - gives melees a nice spot to stand in where no lava slashes will be. Also makes kiting the wolf a bit easier.
    We hero at the top to get use of CDs, prepots, etc. If you do want to use it for the dogs, would it be better to use it on the second set of dogs? That way those 3 minute CDs should be back up. Also, I know as a tank I run out of CDs to use on the 2nd set of dogs, so that pair might be nice to go down faster. Also, if your tanks are getting rocked by the dogs, setting up a rotation for healer externals will help a ton.

  8. #8
    There's no reason to not hero at the start really. If you're not killing the dogs, then there's a problem with your dps/dpsers don't focus them properly.

  9. #9
    Thank you for all of the ideas! We have been trying to lust at the beginning. When you say the tanks swap at 1-2 stacks of charring breath doesn't that add additional issues?

    I would imagine it adds more risk of melee getting hit by breaths by the added swapping, what positioning do you use in order to remedy this or mitigate that chance? Additionally I feel I am pretty good at making sure hand of sacrifice is applied for both the second and third breaths. With that being said, would you still recommend swapping at 2?

  10. #10
    The 3rd breath can really hurt, but that's a good time for healer externals, etc. I recommend just switching when the dogs switch.

  11. #11
    You need to mitigate the 3rd breath with a cool down... Also, this tab should tell you everything https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1689&wipes=1

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