Might come back, F2P/Preferred still screwed over in a lot of stuff?

[jkutswings]

1) I believe that weekly warzone restrictions (for queuing, at least) are bypassed by grouping with a sub.

2) Non-subs can move credits via BoL vendor items (I use the CZ-198 gear). Buy items, store in stronghold, swap toons, sell items before 2 hr timer expires.

Wholeheartedly agree on the nuisance of the weekly passes, but there are (at least partial) workarounds.

[quras]

The biggest problem with this system is that the game forces you to spend too much time doing other things in order to make enough credits to get the unlocks before you can even think about doing what you like. And even for that it restricts you in how you do it with the million other limitations it has!

The only thing you are paying is time. You either want play or you don't. If the restriction you hate is the EXP, just buy a 40K exp boost and get 3 hours of normal exp. 40 K even for a leveling toon is not a huge amount. You might not have it at the very beginning but you can quickly remove that restriction. IF your playing for the stories the credits will come. What you might like to do means little when your not playing anything.

I'm sure people think restricting WOW to level 20 sucks because you see hardly any of the game but if your paying nothing it's a bit hard for me to grasp the need for change. It's too much given me more free please.

Initially yes, you are behind the gun, behind a subber but really, you're not paying anything and you can get rid of nearly all restrictions if you put in the time. It will not be exactly doing everything you want but did you expect free to be exactly what you wanted? I know I don't.

Take the WZ pass for example. As a prefered player, it is impossible to make enough credits as a leveling character in order to buy the pass, meaning that effectively I cannot pvp. Additionally, you can't send money from your main because, as you can guess, you are not allowed to send money as a non-sub. Even when you do reach the point where you can make enough to buy the pass, the fact that the pass is weekly and that you make no money from pvp means that you have to spend plenty of time doing things you might not want to do (ie PvE dailies) in order to be able to buy the pass, so that you then have the chance to play what you like. Also don't forget that these activities for raising money all give reduced rewards to begin with! It's just an endless slap in the face before you can even get to do what you want and have fun, something that in the end turns many people away.

You can PVP, you're just limited in the amount of times you can join a PVP match. 5 times IIRC. Enough to get your interest but not enough to satisfy someone who really wants to PVP and bypass the SW stories.

As the poster said above, join up with someone that does sub and PVP. Get in as much as you would like by queuing with them. Credits can easily be stored by a subber you trust. I currently do that now. They give me their credits, I hold it till they need something, I buy it and give it to them.

On the credit restriction, I'm happy with. Man if credit sellers didn't have a restriction I can't imagine how bad it would be.

In most other F2P MMOs though, if you want to pvp, then you just queue for it with no problems, restrictions or worries in any way. And that is what makes the swtor model restrictive to the point that (imo) it sucks the fun out of the experience.

I think if your a pvp'er its a bit of a hindrance but SWTOR isn't selling this game on it's stellar pvp. It's selling it on the stories and you get those for free. It's got PVP sure but thats not it's trade mark selling point.


BUT don't get me wrong, I'm sure other games make it easier and hand out more but they got a lot of real cash only options. SWTOR at least lets me get by with just credits, remove nearly every restriction if I spend a bit of time in game.
----------------------------------------------------

SNIP.

Problem is, "putting in time" in an awful experience isn't worth it. There are tons of F2P MMO's that allow you to access additional content using only ingame currencies; but SWOTR is the only one with actual restrictions so inane that it's unplayable for most.

That jsut hyperbolic BS.

Unplayable? Get real. Restrictive..? yes but hell, you didn't pay a dime and you can get rid of nearly every restriction with in game credits. Thats a plus for the player that does want to put in time and not pay anything.

I took my sons F2P account, sent nothing from my main and leveled a sage to max just to see. Even with 2 quick bars (instead of 4 with preferred or 6 sub) it was easily playable given how BW is trying to sell it on the stories. The only problem I had was the gear exclusion but I got around that by looking on the GTN for cheap - on level gear.

My bigger problem with SWTOR on that side is how it's a pop up that you are F2P all the time. Like I mentioned from a friend of mine. IT was easy to get past the restrictions but the reminder that it's F2P was more annoying. The reminder that you're paying nothing was a but much.

If you're playing SWTOR at all you can expect to put in a little time. Even during the 12X EXP month, the stories alone will take up that.

[Fkiolaris]

snip

You are doing two things wrong imo:

1) You are telling me (any me) how I should be spending my time in order to have fun in a game.
2) You keep saying there are no restrictions when you keep repeating that in effect a F2P player should farm just to remove those restrictions (that do not exist in other F2P games, with examples provided).

I am sorry mate, but it just doesn't add up. You can hit plenty of other F2P MMOs and do whatever you want with no issues, while here you need to keep farming to get the PERMISSION to do the "good" parts. If I have 5 hours to play in a week and I have to spend 4 and a half to farm the creds to unlock what I want to do, then what's the point? Is swtor really that much of a hardcore MMO that you need 20+ hours per week to enjoy it? I think we both know better than that.

And no, I don't play swtor for its pvp only, but pvp in MMOs is a very important aspect that I try to enjoy. This game has it, it is reasonably enjoyable for the most part, but it completely keeps me out unless I sub. Also, I am not in for the free ride. The other F2P/B2P MMOs that I play get money from me on a regular basis, primarily because I don't feel like I am taken for a fool. A little goodwill goes a very long way with many customers and that's something BW/EA seem to not care about when it comes to swtor.

[Chickat]

f2p's gimpyness is what's keeping me from coming back, as well :/

i mean, i could handle every other restriction if it wasn't for the fucking xp gimp.

I cant handle the credit lock gimp.

[quras]

You are doing two things wrong imo:

1) You are telling me (any me) how I should be spending my time in order to have fun in a game.

Not true, it's just not going to cater to you when you pay nothing. I get many gamers have fun for different reasons, most of if not all things considered as restrictions can be removed in SWTOR. Unwillingness to put in the time to do it is a different matter.

2) You keep saying there are no restrictions when you keep repeating that in effect a F2P player should farm just to remove those restrictions (that do not exist in other F2P games, with examples provided).

I'm not saying there no restriction, I'm just saying you can remove them and never pay a dime of real money to do it. It just takes a little time to do. Thats a pretty sweet deal.

I am sorry mate, but it just doesn't add up. You can hit plenty of other F2P MMOs and do whatever you want with no issues, while here you need to keep farming to get the PERMISSION to do the "good" parts. If I have 5 hours to play in a week and I have to spend 4 and a half to farm the creds to unlock what I want to do, then what's the point? Is swtor really that much of a hardcore MMO that you need 20+ hours per week to enjoy it? I think we both know better than that.

While true, many of those other MMo's give more free but also have more cash only options. Evertyhing in SWTOR can be done and never pay a cent and once you get the ball rolling, you never have to pay again for many things except OPS, FP and PVP but could still be bypassed with in game credits if you want.

I'm not saying it's the best model but damn if I can get it all and never pay for it. Thats pretty good if all I have to do is play the game to get it. I might not get it all upfront but it can be obtained for no cash money. Just my play time. Even if I have to spread that time out over months, it's all free.

And no, I don't play swtor for its pvp only, but pvp in MMOs is a very important aspect that I try to enjoy. This game has it, it is reasonably enjoyable for the most part, but it completely keeps me out unless I sub. Also, I am not in for the free ride. The other F2P/B2P MMOs that I play get money from me on a regular basis, primarily because I don't feel like I am taken for a fool. A little goodwill goes a very long way with many customers and that's something BW/EA seem to not care about when it comes to swtor.

I totally agree. Goodwill goes a long way and PVP is important and it really is one of the aspects I think they should ease up on but I am conflicted on just how much you should give for free as well as letting gamers skip restrictions and never pay anything but in game credits. IF no one wants to sub because you get so much free, why sub? At that point, you'd start being like the other MMOs and running off a cash shop only, never being able to obtain everything off their individual GTN's for in game credits. I'm not fond of those for sure.

[Edge-]

I cant handle the credit lock gimp.

If things were reasonably priced on the GTN (well, at least on my server) and there wasn't the constant "YOU ARE NEARING THE CREDIT CAP OMG!" spam, I would be totally cool with it. Never really bothered me in my casual play of DCUO when I was a F2P player.

[Svifnymr]

Not true, it's just not going to cater to you when you pay nothing. I get many gamers have fun for different reasons, most of if not all things considered as restrictions can be removed in SWTOR. Unwillingness to put in the time to do it is a different matter.

You continue to see it as a subscription game with a free trial that removes things, rather than a f2p game with an optional subscription. You're never going to convince someone that wants to play a f2p game that they're wrong for wanting a fair f2p experience, especially not by acting like they're leeching off the "real players" in the process.

Granted, Bioware thinks the same as you, but that doesn't mean the market thinks that way.

[Treeba]

You continue to see it as a subscription game with a free trial that removes things, rather than a f2p game with an optional subscription. You're never going to convince someone that wants to play a f2p game that they're wrong for wanting a fair f2p experience, especially not by acting like they're leeching off the "real players" in the process.

Granted, Bioware thinks the same as you, but that doesn't mean the market thinks that way.

That's probably the best way I've seen it described yet. When I gave Rift a shot I felt like I was playing a F2P game that gave me some nice perks for my sub. When I try to play TOR as F2P I feel like I'm on a free trial mode. It certainly doesn't help that BW CONSTANTLY holds it over your head. It would honestly be more subtle if they just came out and said, "hey bro, give us some of your money please."

I will agree you can get around most/all the F2P restrictions by simply playing the game. The problem is that it can be very expensive to do so depending on your server's gtn pricing. Some of the smaller servers can get very expensive.... unrealistically so for F2P people.

I don't think BW's system is beneficial to the game. It puts off a lot of people who might otherwise play and then ultimately decide to sub or spend cash in the CM. I also don't like that the system is indirectly punishing to people who do sub for the game. As a sub my queues are ultimately longer simply because the pool of people who can queue is smaller.

[Uproot]

Chiming in just to help with one portion, the transfer of credits to an alt without another person holding your creds (for friendless folks like me when I let my account lapse).

I figured it would be mentioned more, but you can buy your own gtn sales to move creds around. I don't suggest doing it to much, but it's an easy enough way to get 225-315k creds to a new alt while pref/f2p.

[quras]

You continue to see it as a subscription game with a free trial that removes things, rather than a f2p game with an optional subscription. You're never going to convince someone that wants to play a f2p game that they're wrong for wanting a fair f2p experience, especially not by acting like they're leeching off the "real players" in the process.

Granted, Bioware thinks the same as you, but that doesn't mean the market thinks that way.

I think there are enough that are not fond of their F2P model but clearly its hitting a part of the market thats OK with it. It's doing fairly well last I heard. This game is a subscription game with a F2P portion attached to it at a later time.

And honestly what is a F2P experience? Playing a game where you don't have to pay anything? SWTOR does that. You don't get all the bells and whistles but with playing the game, the restrictions can be removed for the most part.

Do I like how BW/EA makes sure you know you're F2P? No I do not.
Do I think PVP could be helped out by allowing more gamers to que? Yes I do.

I definitely don't think F2P gamers are leeching off subbers because I lose nothing if they sub or stay F2P but over all, I'm conflicted on just how much do you give for free when they are giving you so much already.

[Katchii]

I just flat out won't play SW:ToR without a sub. I think the game is good and worth a sub (for as long as you're enjoying playing anyway) but as F2P it just sucks the life out of it and makes it too obvious of a monetizing scheme, meaning as F2P it's practically impossible to do anything without a "you're not a subscriber" thing in your face basically screaming at you to give them money.

Some people don't mind those kinds of things, I personally can't stand it because of how it just breaks the purpose of playing a game to me by bringing real life (money) into a game I generally use to step away from real life for a while.

[Deleted]

Well it was interesting on official forum when they discussed removing warzone restrictions for free players. A lot of people wanted it and people defending the model wrote "if you dont like it, subscribe" and the others were like "we do subscribe, otherwise we wouldn't be able to write here".
They paid, but since warzone queues are so long at least on some servers they do not benefit from paying either, and would rather have the limits removed so more players can join in pvp and queuetimes are reduced. That's why restrictions are good for noone. And also even with restrictions on warzones gone, free players still can't reach maxlvl nor equip pvp gear so it's still pretty restrictive.

[Goshko]

The "they are f2p peasants so they don't deserve to complain" is getting really old. As a subscriber I think the f2p restrictions are way too severe. I don't really care for the f2p players, however those restrictions hurt me.
Credit cap -> limits the prospective pool of buyers for the more expensive stuff I put on GTN.
Warzone cap -> limits the pool of players I can play with (and maybe increase my queues).
XP nerf -> I severely outlevel any friend I convince to give the game a try (unless I persuade them to subscribe right off the bat) which kills leveling together at some point.

Those are the three main offenders for me.

[Svifnymr]

I definitely don't think F2P gamers are leeching off subbers because I lose nothing if they sub or stay F2P but over all, I'm conflicted on just how much do you give for free when they are giving you so much already.

Like I said, you need to provide a full game with no restrictions, then give subscribers buffs. Giving subscribers cartel coins is a good thing, taking action bars away from f2pers is a joke...

[quras]

Like I said, you need to provide a full game with no restrictions, then give subscribers buffs. Giving subscribers cartel coins is a good thing, taking action bars away from f2pers is a joke...

I'm not sold on it needing to be a full game with no restrictions but I do know when I was F2P, I had no problem with 2 action bars while leveling. Of the few things I do think need to be non-restrictive, action bars wasn't really one:

Limited PVP. Thats needs to change. Limited access to quest gear, change that too. Credit cap - Please keep that. There is enough credit spammer now without opening up the flood gates for them to have free accounts with more credit storage. Exp restriction? I never had a problem with that one either and it's easily eliminated with a 40K in game credit boost that lasts 3 hours.

Action bars..? Nah, I didn't really need them leveling. However, in saying that. If you plan on staying in the game for the long haul, more action bars does make sense but by then you're very likely to buy at least 1 thing. Then you automatically get 4 action bars (with no extra purchase) and thats should solve your problem. I'm now a subber and get 6 and thats overkill to be honest.

The F2P experience just didn't stop me from playing. Do I enjoy it more as a subber? Sure I do. Subbing got me more but not subbing didn't turn me off given how easily I removed the restrictions I disliked the most first. The equip epic gear being the first one to go back when I was F2P.

[Kelimbror]

Most people have already covered it, but all of the restrictions are still there. The most hindering ones are lower xp, credit caps, and missing out on quest rewards. They made it even worse with the recent expansion regarding rewards b/c you miss out on some good stuff. In any case, I don't ever recommend people play SWTOR actively without subscribing.

If you want to play the game 'seriously' then you need to subscribe. If you just want a casual experience of leveling, getting a great single player story, then F2P is completely fine. Now you can remedy some things via the GTN as you can purchase escrow transfers as well as xp boosts, but it's just too much of an annoyance like Edge highlighted earlier. You are literally spammed every time you do anything that you are almost at the cap or over the cap.

It would be like having a dwarf employed by your bank popping out of dark alleys and grocery shelves mugging you bc have too much in your savings account. It feels very awkward and shameful. :-/

-ps, the game itself is great just need a sub to play it 'properly'

[Svifnymr]

I'm not sold on it needing to be a full game with no restrictions but I do know when I was F2P, I had no problem with 2 action bars while leveling. Of the few things I do think need to be non-restrictive, action bars wasn't really one:

I more feel that there's a huge amount of ability bloat than that we need more action bars.
BUT, the removal of action bars is one of those "penalty for not subbing" things I mentioned, it's just obvious they made a game with X action bars, and took them away from you. Same can be said of hide head slot or many other things.

Limited PVP. Thats needs to change.

PVP needs people, the main benefit of F2P is to get people in the seats (so to speak), so they really need to open up to get more folks.

Limited access to quest gear, change that too. Credit cap - Please keep that. There is enough credit spammer now without opening up the flood gates for them to have free accounts with more credit storage.

The main problem with the limited access to gear and the credit cap is the spam. They want to remind you over and over that subscription guys get more than you. The credit cap is a problem because I want to buy stuff! Sure, prefered gets more, but I subbed for quite a while, surely I earned some trust!

Exp restriction? I never had a problem with that one either and it's easily eliminated with a 40K in game credit boost that lasts 3 hours.

I think they could have back-ended it to portray it as a buff, it's not like it matters how fast you level through 3 year old content anymore.

The F2P experience just didn't stop me from playing. Do I enjoy it more as a subber? Sure I do. Subbing got me more but not subbing didn't turn me off given how easily I removed the restrictions I disliked the most first. The equip epic gear being the first one to go back when I was F2P.

I subbed a bit around Revan, but not a raider, so don't feel like subbing to run dailies. I do log on as free sometimes to monkey around, the credit cap and attendant spam really are annoying.

[quras]

SNIP... attendant spam really are annoying.

If we don't agree on anything else, we'll agree on that one.

When I was F2P, I knew that already but damn it if BW didn't want to make sure I knew I was not paying anything. Of all the things I would put on a pros and cons list, that one was probably the biggest con I had.

I got it! I'm F2P. Stop "F"ing reminding me.

[Super Kami Dende]

F2P is moreso to give you the ability to play through the stories without paying for the sub.

I find no issue with the F2p, mostly because $15 a month for whatever I want to do seems like pocket change. I can sub for 4 months before it costs anything close to a normal game.

[Saucerian]

In short, yes, F2P/Preferred are still screwed over in a lot of stuff. I'm still bitter that despite paying hundreds when the game was new and sub-only, I now get the same stuff as someone who spent five bucks. Preferred gets you very little.

The good news is if you just want to enjoy TOR as a single player game, the restrictions don't hinder you much.