Why reforging was removed.

[Deleted]

Like bonus armor on dps gear or leech that does next to nothing or worst of all versatility.

How do you get bonus armor on DPS gear? if it has Bonus armor it's tanking gear by definition. Leech is a tertiary stat so it has nothing to do with anyof this. and versatility sucks, we all know that

[Akka]

I like the current system. 90% of the time I'm able to equip the loot piece I just won, right off the bat. Sometimes a gem or enchant but that's usually sorted out as well with my professions or a guildie and gold fee.

Especially liking the tier token system where you just right click to create it and it's done. I really hated MOP having their tier vendors in the middle of fucking nowhere, as well as all the other hassle - reforging your whole gear due to hit/exp, gemming, enchanting and whatnot.

I don't miss reforging (though I wouldn't mind having it back, I just don't really care about it), but I hate the new stat system.
They are just a dumbed down and homogeneized version of what we had before, without any advantage and with a definite "WTF ?" factor : I can easily imagine how getting more precise strikes increase your chances to hit, but how the f*** is "multistrike" supposed to be representative of your toon's action ? You strike very fast (isn't it supposed to be the domain of haste ?) ?

Expertise, hit, dodge, parry : all of them had a particular niche and felt logical. They were all removed to make room for versatility, which is utterly boring and bland, and multistrike, which is just nonsensical. For no gain.

Finally, I actually miss that I had to prepare my gear for it to be raid-ready. Just throwing away the old stuff to put the new in place feels lacking. I want to USE gems and enchants. I want to have the minigame of getting socket bonus with appropriate colours. This axing of little fun things makes getting gear bland.

Since you're at it, please explain why colored socket and gem was removed from the gear. What fundamental flaw i fail to see with the old colored socketed gear. Why is having a socket on you gear be extremely rare more fun? How does that impact jewelcrafting profession positively.

This.

It actually is actively anti-fun. I can't even begin to understand how stupid they could be to gut jewelcrafting both in usefulness and fun like that.

[Deleted]

currently missing it, playing a sub/combat rogue, and i got 1 item with multistrike on ;(

[Celarent]

It was removed because Kris Zierhut and other devs in or influencing class design aren't bright enough to think past the player peanut gallery railing against the feature.

Hit and Expertise uninteresting? Fine. Reforging expensive? Okay.

But unless secondary balance is perfect, which it isn't with best-to-worst often exceeding 50% value, players need to calculate upgrades when they could ensure higher iLevel equalled better by reassigning even 20% of a piece's lowest-valued secondary to a higher one. This expansion is sidegrade heaven.

Making reforging cheap after the removal of Hit and Expertise would've silenced the loudest complainers.

[Geckoo]

There is no 'bad luck' when it comes to itemization except on those stupid random crafted epics. I mean, honestly, we lived before reforging, we're living now without it. Without hit caps to manage, as the OP says, reforging is not exciting.

Just becasue stats are not random doesn't mean that there is no bad luck. As long as item B drops when you expected item A... there will be bad and good luck in itemization. Sometimes just because item A doesn't drop in a month, sometimes because even when it drops someone else gets it... you end up with item B not because is what you want but because it's what dropped, and hell... it's even an upgrade!, just not a fun one. Reforge made item B slightly better, more fun to get, but not as good as item A.

And reforging was and would be exciting, maybe not for you, that's fine, but there is plenty of people that will have fun using it

[Pieterman]

Greetings Pieterman,

Reforging provided a solution to a problem AND turned out to be a great tool for stat customization. Just because the original problem was removed doesn't mean the alternative uses have dissapeared.

Actually, without the original problem it would be a better tool than it ever was:
- No caps, so you can really play around with stats as you please.
- No caps, so no need to keep that piece of loot in your bags until you visit a vendor... just equip it already!
- No caps, so no math involved, no need to visit any website unless you have always done it and are still doing it.
- Specs share gear (strengh plate becoming intellect plate), but don't always share stats... but you could reforge it so it becomes more optimal!
- It was and will still be a good way to counter bad luck.

A very small minority "played around" with their stats. It's very clear which stats are the strongest on which encounter. By taking away the option, they take away the obligation. While you and other people have a point that you could more easily wear non bis gear, it would also mean that the loot competition is significantly increased. As an example, rather than waiting X resets for a mastery/multistrike weapon to drop, you'd have to wait X resets for a mastery/multistrike weapon to drop, and then compete with everyone for it. Why? Oh they'll reforge to crit. Gearing up will on average take just as long, but instead of RNG you get lootdrama.

[Niwes]

reforging was totally senseless crap and should never had been in the game. every ape could predict that such a solution ends with homepages (askmrrobot and others) who told you how to reforge best. so it ends with "every time i get some piece of gear, run to the reforger, pay x gold into the goldsink and click x times what the homepage is telling me". what a shit fucking crap. its good that its gone. period.

[rda]

Greetings community

There seems to be some confusion as to why reforging was removed. If I manage to inform anyone, or get informed by someone in the making of this thread it'll be a success.

Why was it implemented?

Simple. There existed two stats that were the most powerful stats, but stopped having any value after a certain point; hit and expertise. This ment that rather than progression your character naturally, you'd have to swap out gems or keep/wear very outdated gear to stay at these points. It was a decent fix for a rather large problem for the minmaxers.

Why was it removed?

Because hit and expertise were removed.

Why not bring it back anyways?

Two reasons:

• Blizzard wants items to be usable within a reasonable timeframe, rather than having to do a lot of math.

• If every character was 3% stronger due to reforging, every encounter would have to be 3% more difficult.

But I don't want versatility!

Everyone has to deal with that, you're not at a disadvantage. Worst case scenario, you have to downgrade a few item levels to optimise your secondaries in exchange for primaries.

LOL

Reforging was removed because hit and expertise EXISTED, not because they were removed. They screwed up and removed both hit and expertise AND reforging because their dev process was and continues to be in disarray, there are numerous communication issues and no central vision.

Your reasons for not bringing reforging back are a bit silly - reforging doesn't bring any additional math after removing hit and expertise and there is absolutely no problem with making encounters 3% harder - not that it would be necessary, because variety in player knowledge and skill accounts for way more than 3% (think 20%).

[Pieterman]

Since you're at it, please explain why colored socket and gem was removed from the gear. What fundamental flaw i fail to see with the old colored socketed gear. Why is having a socket on you gear be extremely rare more fun? How does that impact jewelcrafting profession positively.

Literally no idea, nor do I have an opinion on this matter.

Your reasons for not bringing reforging back are a bit silly - reforging doesn't bring any additional math after removing hit and expertise and there is absolutely no problem with making encounters 3% harder - not that it would be necessary, because variety in player knowledge and skill accounts for way more than 3% (think 20%).

Tell that to the guy who spent a good hour trying to figure out of multistrike was still better than mastery on blast furnace as an unholy DK. If reforging still existed, that guy would have to reforge every single time they visited blast furnace to minmax.

3% was clearly a placeholder number, and yes I understand that there's a lot of varience in the playerbase. That's part of why I don't get people are complaining it was removed in the first place. Most of the playerbase isn't an optimized player anyways.

[Vankrys]

Blizzard think reforging was too expensive, thus too stressful on min max players, but having 50 stats rune (mandatory for the same min max player) is ok? I don't get it.

[Celarent]

Expertise, hit, dodge, parry : all of them had a particular niche and felt logical. They were all removed to make room for versatility, which is utterly boring and bland, and multistrike, which is just nonsensical. For no gain.

I have two theories on the purpose of Versatility. First, devs wanted an easy way to suppress itemization value in early tiers, and because classes value differently, one stat everyone dislikes equally was necessary; thus, Versatility should be scarce(er) in T18.

Trouble with this theory is that there are simpler ways to do this if you're clever enough to consider it in the first place. Judging by problems with professions and rotations and more, the second theory seems more apt, which is that some dev(s) thought Versatility was, quote "Totally awesome" and fought tooth and nail to keep his/their baby in the game.

[rda]

Blizzard think reforging was too expensive, thus too stressful on min max players, but having 50 stats rune (mandatory for the same min max player) is ok? I don't get it.

To say nothing about items that reroll stats on crafted gear.

[ellieg]

People are always going to be split on this. You are correct that if reforging existed and you could do 3% more damage, than bosses would have 3% more hp.
People like to talk about how they play around with their stats and now they cant customize. You couldn't customize anymore with reforging. If reforging was still around, instead of equipping your gear, you would be reforging all of X stat, to Y stat. No customization, every spec would do they exact same thing.

Finally the thing I keep posting but some people refuse to believe: Back in mop, when reforging still existed, the difference between your worst piece of gear reforged to your best piece of gear, was a bigger gap than your worst piece of gear to your best piece of gear right now in wod. For every spec but 2 or 3, your stats are so close together that reforging would be such a minor upgrade, counting towards less than 1% of dps. Its almost as if every piece of gear is already 40% better than it was. So its practically reforged right now.

[Pieterman]

Blizzard think reforging was too expensive, thus too stressful on min max players, but having 50 stats rune (mandatory for the same min max player) is ok? I don't get it.

It's to promote raiders to do LFR, which is idiotic. Not saying every decision they made since 6.0 has been smart, just trying to get people to understand the unnecessarity of reforging. Every time it's brought up there's people going "oh but I don't need haste" not realising the game is balanced around having imperfect stats.

currently missing it, playing a sub/combat rogue, and i got 1 item with multistrike on ;(

The game is balanced around having imperfectly itemised gear. You can still work on getting more multistrike without having to pay 100g every time you loot an item.

[americandavey]

To me, Reforging was put in because Devs have no clue what classes and certain specs want. Agility on a few cloth items that still exist after so many reviews is a prime example. Reforging was removed because was is evidence the Devs still to this day, have no clue about which secondary stats classes/specs need or want. Plus reforging really had no thought process for MOST of the community, they went to AMR, added their addon to make it simple.

[Vankrys]

It's to promote raiders to do LFR, which is idiotic. Not saying every decision they made since 6.0 has been smart, just trying to get people to understand the unnecessarity of reforging. Every time it's brought up there's people going "oh but I don't need haste" not realising the game is balanced around having imperfect stats.



The game is balanced around having imperfectly itemised gear. You can still work on getting more multistrike without having to pay 100g every time you loot an item.

Gearing up is very counter intuitive in this expantion. I had 660 pvp gear with ideal secondary stats giving me a better simulated dps than the 670 available in raid despite being 10 ilvl lower thus the net loss in primary stat.

Is the game balanced around me making my weekly conquest point to get ideal gear?

[Deleted]

Would the issue with wanting to optimize your gear go away if there was an item that actually changed the stats on an item that drops in raids as well? Say it has haste and multistrike, but you want something else and you spend x amount of Resources or y amount of gold to get that item to reroll the stats?

One of the issues that Always comes up is when other players look at your gear and judge your choices. "why didn't he gem that correctly"? - TBC .. "why didn't he upgrade that piece of gear first?" - MoP.

[Geckoo]

A very small minority "played around" with their stats. It's very clear which stats are the strongest on which encounter. By taking away the option, they take away the obligation. While you and other people have a point that you could more easily wear non bis gear, it would also mean that the loot competition is significantly increased. As an example, rather than waiting X resets for a mastery/multistrike weapon to drop, you'd have to wait X resets for a mastery/multistrike weapon to drop, and then compete with everyone for it. Why? Oh they'll reforge to crit. Gearing up will on average take just as long, but instead of RNG you get lootdrama.

First, the loot competition part is bullshit. Really, how is that a problem and for whom? In a world with 4 difficulties, personal loot & bonus rolls the ones that will usually deal with any kind of loot drama are the high-end raiders that use other loot systems and guess what... those usually like the idea of reforging. Even without them i still don't see the problem, loot drama happens and will always happen for reasons that have nothing to do with reforging.

Second, the obligation part on the other hand is more interesting, because you are right, at least if we talk about specs, no one goes around changing stats for a single fight, but they do change specs. As long as there is a optimal way people will use it, but again... whom? because my guess is that the ones that will feel like they need to reforge for a specific boss are the ones who won't care to do it, that would actually like to have that possibility. Just as it happened with reforging, many people changed specs for specific fights, but just a few reforged all their gear for that a fight, mostly in progression and for very specific situations.

[Pieterman]

Is the game balanced around me making my weekly conquest point to get ideal gear?

Had that same problem early in the expansions. Had ~7 pieces of conquest gear at some point. Seemed stupid seeing that they're already manipulating PvP ilvls anyways. They coulda made them 640 with the same power in PvP combat.

[rda]

Tell that to the guy who spent a good hour trying to figure out of multistrike was still better than mastery on blast furnace as an unholy DK. If reforging still existed, that guy would have to reforge every single time they visited blast furnace to minmax.

A guy like that appreciates being able to reforge. Just ask him.